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airmax95
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
airmax, there is really no point respondig to or arguing with recession and stalin on this one.
Do not waste your time. Instead just nod and pretend to agree the end is near...far better for you.
I will quickly respond to the one direct question stalin posed:
You are really out of touch. Just how long have you been in Korea? Did you ever try to find work in Canada before you left?
I have a BA in History and a MA in Education. I am a certified teacher (Ontario), or at least I was as my certification lapsed as I moved to other employment.
I was in Korea from 1997 - 2008. During that time I was a teacher and started a consulting agency. I also ugraded my qualifications by adding two certificates: one in project management and one in human resources management.
In 2007 I was approached by the public sector (Canadian Government) for a job in Seoul. I had received that offer 2 times in the past and I finally accepted. We (my family and myself) went to Canada for a vacation. During that vacation our car was hit by a drunk driver and I spent some time in the ICU and some months in rehab from a couple of surgeries. During that time, I got another offer from the same government department but based out of Canada. I took that job in late 2008. Following along?
Now what got me that job?
Qualifications, experience, knowledge acquired in Korea (ex: becoming fluent in Korean) and networking. I met a ton of people at conferences and through my consulting agency. That agency was something I created as a self-employment venture, it thrived and it meant I could then move to another country and still have steady employment income.
Thats called planning and not sitting on your hands. I am no superman nor am I a genius. I just worked hard, improved myself, networked and planned ahead.
Before 2007-2008 I had kept up with the employment market in a few parts of Canada for Teachers and consultants. That was just smart planning in case something happened.
I can cite at least 2 dozen people i met in Korea who achieve similar or better results. I know numerous people who left korea and went back to Canada and found work they enjoy. They ALL had ONE THING in common: they planned, researched and had improved their qualifications. Todays employement market looks for versatile people that understand the value of continuing education. Do that and you greatly improve your chances. Do nothing and you will likely get nothing.
This is not a put down or an insult, it is reality-based advice.
You are now in Japan and unhappy with your work right? Well do something about it!
you have opportunities in Asian for a higher savings potential and typically you have some free time on your hands: use this!
Do some research about what you would like to do, get the qualifications for that and scope out the market. When the time is right, apply. If the time is not right, do something else in the meantime but do something that contributes to your plan.
Or, keep lining up entry-level teaching gigs and whine about how you cannot get work back home. Do this long enough and you will in fact become unemployable back in Canada....it is ALL in your hands buddy. |
I fully agree with this. At some point an individual can become unemployable. A CV has to show some measure of meaningful progress, either through employment or PD or education. The OP however is far from that point from what I can tell, which is why I think it is important for him to understand the opportunities that might exist although it might be easy to be discouraged. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I lived in Korea a few years ago. I got a decent job a few months after I returned, but I was never really happy in it and I have now returned to University to re-train. I'm very optimistic about my career choice.
The doom and gloom on here is way overstated, and seem like excuses me to justify the status quo and put off the eventual hardship of returning.
The truth is nobody owes you a living. And nobody except your mom really cares what you do. If you want to put off the future for another 10 years, working one year contracts as a guest worker in Korea or Japan, in the meantime building no equity, no retirement plan, no job security, no opportunity for job re-training or diversification, that's your choice, and the easiest choice to make. However, if and when the ESL market undergoes a paradigm shift making you redundant-- and all markets eventually do -- you may be doing it in your 30's or 40's or 50's instead of in your 20's, and although I don't think it's ever too late (I'm in my 30's myself retraining now), it's not going to get any easier. The longer you put off returning, the harder it's going to be.
Sorry if thats harsh..but it's reality. Returning to Canada is not the doomesday scenario people are making it out to be but it's not all unicorns, cupcakes, and gumdrops. A good job, any one you'd consider as a career, is not going to just fall into your lap, and inspiration is not going to just strike from above. You're going to have to start on the bottom rung, and it's going to take hard work, a bit of luck, and mostly TIME. Even in fields where jobs are plentiful, there are rounds of interviews, department meetings, funding approvals, reference checks, .. it can take months from first contact from a recruiter to you signing a contract!
However, if you can come back with the attitude you're never too good for a job and you'll do whatever it takes to get by in the meantime until you're settled, you'll probably do fine like the vast majority of other people do, but again, it's not going to happen overnight. |
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airmax95
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Stalin84 wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| ^ This is a pretty serious topic. We're in a depression. Keep the flames down, eh? I suspect that thousands of E2's in Korea are nervously pondering their post-E2 future. |
I'm just saying. It's harder than pulling up your sleeves, getting your haircut and handing out resumes all day, every day. Then saying that everything is the same as it always was and it's our fault for not succeeding back home as we have no work ethic and are members of the pampered generation.
I'm not saying there is no truth in what Patrick is saying but I am saying is that he's severely out of touch with reality if he thinks elbow grease is all that one needs to do well in the West. What he says makes perfect sense about a decade ago and in a relatively affluent area.
I wish there were more statistics to pull up on this mess in order to back myself up but statistics usually come out years later. Where I'm from has always had a miserable economy, though. A loaf of bread actually costs more than it did in 1975 and minimum wage is actually less than it was in 1975 (adjusted for inflation) and a lot more people are on it. That's not counting the massive debt they're in as 90% of my graduating class went to university when only 20% of them should have. |
Stalin I don't think anyone here is saying if you work hard you'll get a job. There are no guarantees. I think the most important point here is that there are a number of things you could be doing in order to put yourself in a position to take advantage of an opportunity that will likely appear with some persistence. There are quick a few people who were in your shoes. |
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airmax95
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
I lived in Korea a few years ago. I got a decent job a few months after I returned, but I was never really happy in it and I have now returned to University to re-train. I'm very optimistic about my career choice.
The doom and gloom on here is way overstated, and seem like excuses me to justify the status quo and put off the eventual hardship of returning.
The truth is nobody owes you a living. And nobody except your mom really cares what you do. If you want to put off the future for another 10 years, working one year contracts as a guest worker in Korea or Japan, in the meantime building no equity, no retirement plan, no job security, no opportunity for job re-training or diversification, that's your choice, and the easiest choice to make. However, if and when the ESL market undergoes a paradigm shift making you redundant-- and all markets eventually do -- you may be doing it in your 30's or 40's or 50's instead of in your 20's, and although I don't think it's ever too late (I'm in my 30's myself retraining now), it's not going to get any easier. The longer you put off returning, the harder it's going to be.
Sorry if thats harsh..but it's reality. Returning to Canada is not the doomesday scenario people are making it out to be but it's not all unicorns, cupcakes, and gumdrops. A good job, any one you'd consider as a career, is not going to just fall into your lap, and inspiration is not going to just strike from above. You're going to have to start on the bottom rung, and it's going to take hard work, a bit of luck, and mostly TIME. Even in fields where jobs are plentiful, there are rounds of interviews, department meetings, funding approvals, reference checks, .. it can take months from first contact from a recruiter to you signing a contract!
However, if you can come back with the attitude you're never too good for a job and you'll do whatever it takes to get by in the meantime until you're settled, you'll probably do fine like the vast majority of other people do, but again, it's not going to happen overnight. |
Nicely put Silk. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| Become a plumber, an electrician, a metalworker, etc... jobs and money. |
Let me add truck driving to this list. Yes, there is a unique window where there is some money to be made in those trades if you're so inclined, willing to put up with isolation in harsh places (Northern Canada/Fort Mac), long overtime hours, and hours spent on airplanes in between.
However, lets put it in perspective here. There are about 45 thousand people in Fort Mac compared to 4.5million people in the GTA, the vast majority who are employed. Most college grads went to college because they're the kind of people who can do things like learn Calculus and argue about existentialism, but their most technical handyman-ship is changing a light bulb. Why would you consider doing a trade like that unless you were handy and interested in that? Your greatest strengths (your ability to abstract by reading, writing, arithmetic) would be diminished, and your greatest weaknesses (lack of physical dexterity, handiness) will be enhanced.
However, there are other trades, more suited to average university grads. If you're interested in them, do your research, make long-term GOALS, and work hard to achieve them, they're a very good route. 7/10 of the fastest growing professions are health related and the other 3 are technology. Why not consider a 1 or 2 year IT program? Radiology? Graphic Design? Environmental Science? Or whatever else suits your fancy. Here's one success story.
Now finally, a a comment about a degree being 'worthless'. It's true that a degree is not a golden ticket to a good life. (As I said, nobody owes you a living.) However, at my previous job where maybe around a 1/3rd of the staff had degrees, every single manager has one. It's not officially a pre-requisite to becoming a manager there, but in practice, it is. I think other decent companies are very similar. The official stats right now are that someone with a degree will on average earn about a million dollars more over their career than someone without one, and in Canada at least, that gap is increasing, not decreasing. So don't blame your degree for your lack of career success. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I read three pages of advice, and I don't have time to read the other three, so if this has been said, sorry.
IMO getting a B.Ed is great if you can work with it OUTSIDE Canada, or if you have teachables that are in great demand, like French.
My teachables are English and history, which are the two intermediate/senior qualifications that most teachers have, thus LOTS of competition for jobs.
I decided while doing my practicums that Canada wasn't for me anyways, so I booted it to the international school sector after graduation.
What I did want to point out is that teaching is a HUGE money sink. Don't go into it thinking that just a B.Ed will do.
To make yourself more marketable, you will need to do some AQ courses. They are almost $1000 a pop. Expect to have to take 3-4 of these after you get your B.Ed if you want to stay competitive.
Then, if you have aspirations of being a principal, like I do, you need to have either a masters degree or two honour specialists (this is in Ontario) before you can take the principal qualification courses, which there are two...that is more cash.
If you want to teach abroad, you need a masters degree to get into the really top schools. That is time and money too.
Just to let you know, if I knew what I was getting myself into, I would have gone to law school instead.
I had crappy marks on my first degree (70-75%), so I did another 10 credits to boost my GPA (boosted to 85%) so I could get into a B.Ed degree. (That was probably $30,000 if I count tuition and living expenses.) After that I spent $6500 in tuition, and another 15,000 or so in living expenses doing the B.Ed. I am doing an MA that is going to end up costing me about $40,000, and all the AQ/principal quals will be another 6-8k.
For that money, a law degree would have been a better investment. It will take a few years before I get a principalship of some type, and the pay isn't that stellar at international schools...headmaster pay is comparable to Ontario principal pay.
So my advice, think about it really hard. Is the time/money going to be a good investment?
And really, who would want to go the US? They are shedding teaching jobs like a cat sheds hair. What makes you think they would hire a Canadian over an unemployed American teacher? |
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sarahsiobhan
Joined: 24 May 2009
Location: Wherever I am , I am probably drinking tea.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ChocolateStarfish wrote: |
Sounds to me like you are lazy. You wanted to here people to tell you to stay in Asia. I'd have stayed in Asia too if I were lazy, if I didn't want a home and a car and a pension. But I wasn't, and I did, did, did, and did.
But I guess if I had your worthless degree (philosophy? wtf?) I'd be in Asia too.
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So, he's lazy because he doesn't choose to live the life YOU want? I don't own a home; I don't have a car; that makes me lazy? I have three degrees, H.B.A, B.Ed and M.A. I really like living in Asia, because I DON'T WANT to be tied down to one place. I have lived in two countries in the last three years, because I enjoy traveling and teaching and seeing the world. If you think that makes me 'lazy', well......eff you, then.
Since you seem to SO enjoy judging people who live a life different from yours without knowing them, I'll join in and see how you like it.
You are delusional if you think that getting married to a successful man was not a serious help to you. You would NOT be where you are today if you hadn't snagged your meal ticket. Your life was made MUCH easier when you found a man who could pay your way in life...who's lazy now?
Yeah, it's not cool, is it? The whole judging without knowing thing, I mean. You might want to give that a rest. Oh and by the way, if I had to live your life, married, daily commute, living in Northwestern Ontario (where I'm from, incidentally) doing the same boring stuff every day I'd probably go insane. Just because someone chooses a life YOU would scoff at does not mean it has no value, or more importantly, that that person is 'lazy'.
Get over yourself. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| stalin, check your PM. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mr Pink,
If it is any consolation to you, I know many people who went to law school and are not lawyers. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Maybe it means that you can do many things with law or maybe it means that being a lawyer is difficult to gain entry to or is a terrible job.....
I think the BEST advice is to find something you can train in that you can create into your own business. Then you can make your own job. I am currently pondering this same course of action for myself.
It is getting clearer to me that applying to jobs on the internet with the hope of getting a phone call back is a waste of time. |
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Satchel Paige
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| in the meantime building no equity, no retirement plan, no job security, no opportunity for job re-training or diversification, that's your choice, and the easiest choice to make. |
You could say the same thing about a good number of jobs 'back home' as well. How many people end up becoming CEOs? Not many. How many people end up stuck in mid-management level positions until, one day, they get the pink slip after finding out their jobs have outsourced to India? Quite a bit more, I would assume.
The part about no retirement savings is bull too. You would just have to learn to investment your money independently (through real estate, gov. pension schemes, ETF, and so on), as opposed to relying on your employer.
Some would argue that the lower taxes and lower cost of living in Korea (esp if you have no interest in the married w/ 2.5 kids + white picket fence routine) allows for even GREATER financial freedom.
And what the hell do you mean by 'equity' anyway? |
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smee18
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure how it works in Canada, but in Australia you can become a teacher my taking a Grad.Dip. in Education (1 year postgraduate work) ... don't have to do a whole B.Ed. from scratch.
Personally, I think the ESL market is a decent place to be in today's global economic environment. When countries like China work out that America has no capacity or intention to pay its debts, they will dump their US dollars, causing the dollar to crash. When that happen, Americas (who consume the vast majority of the world resources) will start consuming less (by necessity) and Asians etc. will start consuming more, which means of course that the former economy will shrink dramatically whilst the latter economies expand. The same can be said of all the Western economies really ... those that thought it would be a good idea to let consumption rather than production drive economic growth.
Thoughts anyone? |
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Satchel Paige
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| sarahsiobhan wrote: |
| ChocolateStarfish wrote: |
Sounds to me like you are lazy. You wanted to here people to tell you to stay in Asia. I'd have stayed in Asia too if I were lazy, if I didn't want a home and a car and a pension. But I wasn't, and I did, did, did, and did.
But I guess if I had your worthless degree (philosophy? wtf?) I'd be in Asia too.
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So, he's lazy because he doesn't choose to live the life YOU want? I don't own a home; I don't have a car; that makes me lazy? I have three degrees, H.B.A, B.Ed and M.A. I really like living in Asia, because I DON'T WANT to be tied down to one place. I have lived in two countries in the last three years, because I enjoy traveling and teaching and seeing the world. If you think that makes me 'lazy', well......eff you, then.
Since you seem to SO enjoy judging people who live a life different from yours without knowing them, I'll join in and see how you like it.
You are delusional if you think that getting married to a successful man was not a serious help to you. You would NOT be where you are today if you hadn't snagged your meal ticket. Your life was made MUCH easier when you found a man who could pay your way in life...who's lazy now?
Yeah, it's not cool, is it? The whole judging without knowing thing, I mean. You might want to give that a rest. Oh and by the way, if I had to live your life, married, daily commute, living in Northwestern Ontario (where I'm from, incidentally) doing the same boring stuff every day I'd probably go insane. Just because someone chooses a life YOU would scoff at does not mean it has no value, or more importantly, that that person is 'lazy'.
Get over yourself. |
In fact, she's so happy with her cookie-cutter lifestyle, that she's looking for advice on the other forum about how to escape back to Korea, sans husband.. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Satchel Paige wrote: |
| silkhighway wrote: |
| in the meantime building no equity, no retirement plan, no job security, no opportunity for job re-training or diversification, that's your choice, and the easiest choice to make. |
You could say the same thing about a good number of jobs 'back home' as well. How many people end up becoming CEOs? Not many. How many people end up stuck in mid-management level positions until, one day, they get the pink slip after finding out their jobs have outsourced to India? Quite a bit more, I would assume.
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So what are you suggesting? That people should stay in Korea teaching ESL forever because many people in Canada work in dead-end jobs? I'm saying there's opportunity in Canada, so much opportunity in fact that people from all over the world want to immigrate here. Whether you choose to take advantage of those opportunities is up to you. Successful people know what they want and are willing to work for it.
| Quote: |
The part about no retirement savings is bull too. You would just have to learn to investment your money independently (through real estate, gov. pension schemes, ETF, and so on), as opposed to relying on your employer.
Some would argue that the lower taxes and lower cost of living in Korea (esp if you have no interest in the married w/ 2.5 kids + white picket fence routine) allows for even GREATER financial freedom.
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If that's working out for you, then I'm not going to talk you out of it. Good on you.
However for people who have spent a few years in Korea/Japan/wherever and are starting to feel like they have little to show for it, they have other smarter choices they can be making.
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And what the hell do you mean by 'equity' anyway?
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Sorry editing error..equity in your home. In other words, owning your own home and not being at the mercy of paying rent to landlords, especially when you are too old to work and are living on a fixed income when you may not be able to afford drastic swings in rent prices. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
Mr Pink,
If it is any consolation to you, I know many people who went to law school and are not lawyers. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Maybe it means that you can do many things with law or maybe it means that being a lawyer is difficult to gain entry to or is a terrible job.....
I think the BEST advice is to find something you can train in that you can create into your own business. Then you can make your own job. I am currently pondering this same course of action for myself.
It is getting clearer to me that applying to jobs on the internet with the hope of getting a phone call back is a waste of time. |
This is because to really make it, you have to be among the best or lucky. I think I have a natural talent for law. I took a few law classes while I was doing my 10 credit upgrade and got 90s in both of them.
I also like doing administration type work, and I like education, so I think going for a principalship is another route. I'll see how that one works out... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| I If you want to put off the future for another 10 years, working one year contracts as a guest worker in Korea or Japan, in the meantime building no equity, no retirement plan, no job security, no opportunity for job re-training or diversification, that's your choice, and the easiest choice to make. . |
Building equity is not always the wisest strategy. As for a retirement plan you can design that yourself. Job security? You make your own by upgrading your qualifications. And it's not like the West is much better in any of those regards.
At the end of the day it's all about what one puts into it. You can get ahead in Canada and you can get ahead here. End of story. |
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