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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think its pretty dumb for bars to ban foreigners. Cash is cash. Drunks can always be a problem no matter what their background.
However if a bar wants to ban people scruffily dressed, who lack the financial means to pay for stuff, are under the age of 35, have no corporate credentials to accompany them and so on, I see no problem with that.
I'm guessing that at a lot of these places it depends on how you carry yourself.
If you roll up in 3 black cars and have people hop out wearing sunglasses and opening the door for you, you probably can get in if you're a foreigner.
What those sings basically mean is "no riff-raff we cant beat to a pulp/collect on if they choose to act a fool"
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| It's racism, pure and simple. And don't give me this crap about it being "culture" and "that's just the way it is done here." Bullcrap. It is racism, more likely emanating from massive inferiority complexes. I love how people here just say things like turn a blind eye and go elsewhere. The point is that we shouldn't have to. Where are the apologists on this thread? If a Korean had experienced racism, they'd be all over it. Don't ignore the central point of these places...it IS racism. Nothing else. |
So whenever you go to a Korean bar do you order anju?
Think about how many foreigners raise a stink and refuse to order anju.
If we want to be welcome into more bars, simple, start ordering anju.
It baffles me how foreigners will go to the bar, refuse to order anju, and then wonder why they get crappy service or turned away the next time.
If you want Koreans to respect your customs, respect theirs. Order anju cheapskates. If a 15,000 won plate of fruit banks your bank, hint- YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO GO OUT DRINKING.
I think the bigger point is not racism, but the unwritten rules that govern such places that we foreigners are unaware of.
I mean if we can't even get the anju thing down why could we be trusted with the customs of a hostess bar?
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Somehow I am not surprised you would be defending this practice.
The only bars I know of that have the "No Koreans" policy do so because of Korean law. The government doesn�t want Korean citizens going to trashy sailor bars. It�s the same as the casinos in Korea. |
I think TUM is saying that there is equal opportunity racism here.
Meaning that if foreigners want to set up foreigner only bars they can.
If Koreans want to set up Korean only bars they can.
I also don't think he is defending that, rather just saying "that's the way it is, and its equal. Equally bad maybe, but equal." |
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Kissmykimchi
Joined: 25 May 2010
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
Me? I'd say take your business elsewhere. I know it's insulting, but you know what? It's also bad business to exclude people who might be good customers for a long time. It's their financial loss. Go somewhere else and enjoy yourself. Spread the word about that other place, too.
I'm impressed that you addressed this issue in your blog. We've all seen it done or had it done to us by someone somewhere. The other "top" foreign bloggers are afraid to touch issues like this, for some reason. |
Thanks for the compliment. To be honest I haven't experience much negativity at all being in Korea. Maybe I'm lucky. In fact the two incidents at Volume and Pulse don't even compare to all the great things that have happened here. But still the fact they happened should be addressed. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I couldn't care less if a club won't let me in. There's plenty of clubs in korea. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Provence wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| It's racism, pure and simple. And don't give me this crap about it being "culture" and "that's just the way it is done here." Bullcrap. It is racism, more likely emanating from massive inferiority complexes. I love how people here just say things like turn a blind eye and go elsewhere. The point is that we shouldn't have to. Where are the apologists on this thread? If a Korean had experienced racism, they'd be all over it. Don't ignore the central point of these places...it IS racism. Nothing else. |
So what about the clubs that have a "No Koreans" policy? 
Or the "foreigners only" apartments? |
Somehow I am not surprised you would be defending this practice.
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And neither am I surprised that you completely misunderstood.
ANY type of club that discriminates based on skin color is bad. Yet here we have someone preaching about the clubs that have a "no foreigners" policy while conveniently ignoring the other side of the coin.
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy not defending the policy.
Man my reading comprehension classes are going to be overbooked at this rate. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Provence wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| It's racism, pure and simple. And don't give me this crap about it being "culture" and "that's just the way it is done here." Bullcrap. It is racism, more likely emanating from massive inferiority complexes. I love how people here just say things like turn a blind eye and go elsewhere. The point is that we shouldn't have to. Where are the apologists on this thread? If a Korean had experienced racism, they'd be all over it. Don't ignore the central point of these places...it IS racism. Nothing else. |
So what about the clubs that have a "No Koreans" policy?
Or the "foreigners only" apartments? |
Somehow I am not surprised you would be defending this practice.
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And neither am I surprised that you completely misunderstood.
ANY type of club that discriminates based on skin color is bad. Yet here we have someone preaching about the clubs that have a "no foreigners" policy while conveniently ignoring the other side of the coin.
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy not defending the policy.
Man my reading comprehension classes are going to be overbooked at this rate. |
His point wasn't "Why don't we get our own clubs?" His point was the practice of discrimination was wrong, something you didn't address. While he may have misinterpreted what you said (I would have as well; you countered a complaint about racism), its hardly a problem with reading comprehension. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Provence wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| It's racism, pure and simple. And don't give me this crap about it being "culture" and "that's just the way it is done here." Bullcrap. It is racism, more likely emanating from massive inferiority complexes. I love how people here just say things like turn a blind eye and go elsewhere. The point is that we shouldn't have to. Where are the apologists on this thread? If a Korean had experienced racism, they'd be all over it. Don't ignore the central point of these places...it IS racism. Nothing else. |
So what about the clubs that have a "No Koreans" policy?
Or the "foreigners only" apartments? |
Somehow I am not surprised you would be defending this practice.
|
And neither am I surprised that you completely misunderstood.
ANY type of club that discriminates based on skin color is bad. Yet here we have someone preaching about the clubs that have a "no foreigners" policy while conveniently ignoring the other side of the coin.
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy not defending the policy.
Man my reading comprehension classes are going to be overbooked at this rate. |
His point wasn't "Why don't we get our own clubs?" His point was the practice of discrimination was wrong, something you didn't address. While he may have misinterpreted what you said (I would have as well; you countered a complaint about racism), its hardly a problem with reading comprehension. |
I most certainly did address that. I simply used the other side of the coin so as to speak.
And Mr. Wishmaster said nothing about the practice of discrimination being wrong. He was complaining about Koreans discriminating against foreigners. But he completely avoided the issue of discrimination against Koreans. In fact he made the claim "If a Korean had experienced racism they'd be all over it."
Yet there are clubs and apartments here that discriminate against Koreans so his claim is wrong to begin. Not to mention the fact that he was solely complaining about Koreans discriminating against foreigners as opposed to discrimination in general.
He also made the claim that "it IS racism. Nothing else."
So I simply asked if it were racism how he explains that there are places that discriminate against KOREANS? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Wishmaster wrote: |
| It's racism, pure and simple. And don't give me this crap about it being "culture" and "that's just the way it is done here." Bullcrap. It is racism, more likely emanating from massive inferiority complexes. I love how people here just say things like turn a blind eye and go elsewhere. The point is that we shouldn't have to. Where are the apologists on this thread? If a Korean had experienced racism, they'd be all over it. Don't ignore the central point of these places...it IS racism. Nothing else. |
It is. However, many of us on here, possibly yourself got your job because of it. What non white male or female person who had better credentials didn't get your job because of what they looked like?
It is what it is. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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All of the clubs that I have seen that don't allow Koreans have the policy in place because they are in special designated "tourism zones". Because of this designation, the clubs get their booze tax free. Because no tax has been paid on the alcohol, and because the alcohol is supposed to be for tourists, that is why Korean's are not allowed in.
Then those bars resell the booze at a profit to other bars that don't get tax free status...But that's another story.
As far as gambling - it's supposed to be illegal for Koreans to gamble. Yet, there is ONE casino, AFAIK, that Koreans can go to. Who knows what is legal and what isn't in this country? |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think he has to say racism is bad; it's sort of implied by his complaining about it.
Those places don't cancel out racism with a different kind of racism. It just adds more racism. You didn't address the core point: "it is racism" which he said 3 times. Giving another example of racism doesn't counter that point. It DOES counter the point about it happening to koreans and how they'd react, I'll give u that. |
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Provence
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
All of the clubs that I have seen that don't allow Koreans have the policy in place because they are in special designated "tourism zones". Because of this designation, the clubs get their booze tax free. Because no tax has been paid on the alcohol, and because the alcohol is supposed to be for tourists, that is why Korean's are not allowed in.
Then those bars resell the booze at a profit to other bars that don't get tax free status...But that's another story.
As far as gambling - it's supposed to be illegal for Koreans to gamble. Yet, there is ONE casino, AFAIK, that Koreans can go to. Who knows what is legal and what isn't in this country? |
That was my point but TUM chose to ignore it and attempted to insult my reading comprehension skills instead. It�s "No Koreans" because of Korean Law.
I am not sure what he meant about the foreign only housing though.
The only thing I can think of is the foreign compounds in companies such Hyundai or the apartment buildings that some schools buy to house their teachers. However, I couldn�t live in those places either unless I worked for those schools and or companies so it�s not really a race issue.
Last edited by Provence on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Provence
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Provence wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| It's racism, pure and simple. And don't give me this crap about it being "culture" and "that's just the way it is done here." Bullcrap. It is racism, more likely emanating from massive inferiority complexes. I love how people here just say things like turn a blind eye and go elsewhere. The point is that we shouldn't have to. Where are the apologists on this thread? If a Korean had experienced racism, they'd be all over it. Don't ignore the central point of these places...it IS racism. Nothing else. |
So what about the clubs that have a "No Koreans" policy?
Or the "foreigners only" apartments? |
Somehow I am not surprised you would be defending this practice.
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I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy not defending the policy.
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It sure seems like were trying to defend one evil with another.
You remind me of a guy I met a couple years ago in Korea. We were all talking about an instance in which a foreign girl got rapped by a Korean.
His reasoning was that it wasn�t the mans fault because the girl was probably being promiscuous and Korean men aren�t used to it.
Now I understand the need to respect your host country but that was a bit much.
Keep your blinders on if you want, but you�re not convincing me. |
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JBomb
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I saw this on signs up and down the strip by the beach during Boryeong Mud Festival. Seemed kind of silly really. The Family Marts certainly weren't complaining about the increase in business though. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Provence wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
All of the clubs that I have seen that don't allow Koreans have the policy in place because they are in special designated "tourism zones". Because of this designation, the clubs get their booze tax free. Because no tax has been paid on the alcohol, and because the alcohol is supposed to be for tourists, that is why Korean's are not allowed in.
Then those bars resell the booze at a profit to other bars that don't get tax free status...But that's another story.
As far as gambling - it's supposed to be illegal for Koreans to gamble. Yet, there is ONE casino, AFAIK, that Koreans can go to. Who knows what is legal and what isn't in this country? |
That was my point but TUM chose to ignore it and attempted to insult my reading comprehension skills instead. |
I wouldn't have had to mention your reading comprehension skills if you hadn't attempted to put words in my mouth instead of reading what I actually wrote.
You stated "Somehow I am not surprised you would be defending this practice."
And not content with that you now attempt to compare me to the defender of a rapist.
What is wrong with you?
I already explained I was questioning the hypocrisy not defending a policy. I also stated quite clearly that any discrimination based on skin color is wrong.
But if you had actually read my original post (which started all this) you would have seen that I was asking about the "No KOREANS" policy. I did not mention the "No Foreigners" at all.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Provence wrote: |
[.
The only thing I can think of is the foreign compounds in companies such Hyundai or the apartment buildings that some schools buy to house their teachers. However, I couldn�t live in those places either unless I worked for those schools and or companies so it�s not really a race issue. |
http://www.useoul.edu/news/news0502_2.jsp
Scroll down to the section under the heading "Apartments" (Flats)."
"There are also expensive foreigners-only apartments in Seoul."
You can also see these apartments being advertised (as foreigner-only) in the Korea Times ad section.
Now you can say that you couldn't afford these. Neither could I. But my point is that Koreans can not live there AT ALL whether they can afford it or not.
So if it is restricted to foreigners then yes it IS based on race. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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So, if a gyopo that doesn't speak a lick of Korean gets denied entry into the same club, is it still racism?
Because, to me it sounds more like discrimination rather than racism. |
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