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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: |
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http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/post-marital-spinsterhood/
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| Also like Eat Pray Love, it later came out that the dreamy younger man only married her for a visa. He also was looking to cash in on the royalties from the deal. Oh, and he also forgot to mention he was gay when he married her. Evidently that was a deal breaker for the author, and the two have since divorced: |
Kinda related to the thread. The post is quite funny.
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/feminism-and-womens-happiness/
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I�m not the first to note that feminism tends to make women unhappy. For example, many have pointed out that it makes women unhappy by suggesting they arrange their lives in ways less likely to make them happy. Stressing career over family, stressing the need to dominate their husbands, etc.
But feminism also has from its inception been about convincing women that they are terribly unhappy. This is a foundational step for any group wanting to introduce sweeping changes. People won�t accept let alone push for change if they are happy with the status quo. Feminism wants to keep pushing social change, so they can�t afford to let up on their message to women that unless they are a fool they should be terribly unhappy.
But this blog is about solutions. Women can be happy. The patriarchy has merely tricked you into choosing the wrong options. Therefore, all you have to do is make different choices. You know, the ones where the deck isn�t stacked against you. To achieve true happiness as a woman, all you have to do is avoid all of the following unhappy options the patriarchy wants to force you into:
Life�s work:
* If a full time mother being supported by a husband: Your life lacks the meaning and fulfillment your husband enjoys by having a career. Raising kids is pointless drudgery imposed on women by the patriarchy.
* If a full time career woman: You are being deprived of the right to fulfill your all important maternal instinct. The patriarchy has forced you to abandon your dreams of fulfillment via motherhood, and trapped you in a pointless, thankless job.
* If you have a career and children: You are being forced to do double work by the patriarchy. You work the dreaded second shift. Both jobs are pointless, thankless, drudgery.
* If your husband agrees to be a stay at home dad while you focus on the role of breadwinner: Your husband is sponging off of you, while enjoying the great rewards of caring for your children. You are forced into thankless drudgery in a career.
Marital Status:
* If unmarried: Men have failed you in some way. They either failed you by being unworthy of marriage in your eyes, or they refuse to do their duty and marry you (fear of commitment!). This is true even if you divorced one or more previous husbands.
* If married: You are trapped in by binding agreement, prevented from fulfilling your life�s desires.
Leadership role in the marriage:
* If the husband has it: He is a tyrant who dominates you and prevents you from being a full human being. No act of violence or deception on your part is beyond the pale of acceptable responses to such an unbearable situation.
* If the wife has it (AKA shared leadership): He is a loser. You feel like his mother. |
Sounds about right. |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Kepler wrote: |
| I've noticed quite a few websites and online forums where mostly men bash feminism nonstop. A lot these men feel that women demand the benefits of equality while still demanding the benefits traditionally associated with being a woman (such as a having a man to financially support you and pay the bills). There is a lot of outrage expressed about divorce laws which many feel discriminate against men. Some of these men call themselves MRAs (men's rights activists) and take a more active role in fighting for men's rights. Maybe feminism was about equality in the beginning but it has evolved into something else. |
One perfect example of this is marriage tradition. It is an antiquated and oppressive tradition for a woman to have to change her name, but you best believe that most women who feel that way still firmly believe in the antiquated tradition of a man having to show his ability to support her by giving her a diamond ring!
Double standards abound in all gender matters. The reality is that males have been socialized to believe that to complain is not a male thing to do. You shut up and take it like a man.
I'm a firm believer in gender equality under the law. I also think feminism has outlived its usefulness as a means to that end. The older I get, the more women I get to know, the more I see truth in the sterotypes that I used to debunk as sexist garbage.
Women are more emotional and scatterbrained than men, in general. They say they want one thing, but really hope for another. I've seen some ridiculous stuff from women in my day. It makes me believe that my grandfather wasn't too far off in some of the things I used to hear him say about women. The only hope I have is that women soon will be held accountable for all of their actions and behavior in the same way men are. Then we will have equality. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I got my husband an engagement present. <<shrugs>> At the time he was out of work, and I proposed.
He's still an alpha male. I'm just an alpha female. It makes things fun. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: |
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^What did you get him? Was it pretty?
| NilesQ wrote: |
The reality is that males have been socialized to believe that to complain is not a male thing to do. You shut up and take it like a man.
The older I get, the more women I get to know, the more I see truth in the sterotypes that I used to debunk as sexist garbage.
Women are more emotional and scatterbrained than men, in general. |
So what you're saying is, men are socialized to be a certain way, but women fulfill cultural stereotypes because they are just stupid like that. Fascinating! Do go on. |
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Tundra_Creature
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| NilesQ wrote: |
| Women are more emotional and scatterbrained than men, in general. They say they want one thing, but really hope for another. I've seen some ridiculous stuff from women in my day. It makes me believe that my grandfather wasn't too far off in some of the things I used to hear him say about women. The only hope I have is that women soon will be held accountable for all of their actions and behavior in the same way men are. Then we will have equality. |
Oddly enough, I was just watching a documentary on boys/males and how they learn etc. They are just as emotional as girls, just in a different way. Boys can lash out and have tantrums, it's just they have a different way that a female may do so.
I'm gonna assume that you get the scatterbrained stereotype from the same place us females get the stereotype of men not being capable of handling more than one instruction at a time.
I've seen some ridiculous stunts pulled by women. But I've also seen some equally stupid stuff done my men. The thing is that the method may be different is all. If you choose to only focus at the dumb stuff that any gender does, then of course they're gonna look like shit.
I think that the divorce system of right now is largely unfair towards men, like it used to be way back in the day for many women. I certainly think that there needs to be a big rehaul so that honest people won't get screwed over by their spouses or the system in general.
Males and females aren't unequal and shouldn't be viewed as such. Now are there differences? Of course there are.
Feminism that leads to equality isn't a bad thing. I much like being able to vote and get a job with equal pay and other such things. Like anything in life... it's the crazies that ruins it for everyone else. |
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rach123
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="BaldTeacher
My commie professor already made me read her garbage. [/quote]
Fine, don't read bell hooks (of course she doesn't say she wants to kill random white men). Better yet, volunteer at a battered women's shelter, raise awareness about FGM, advocate for equal pay (yes, there still is a gap), or whatever... do something constructive whether it be for women's rights or human rights.
As for women being "more scatterbrained"... I went to law school and over half the students in my class were women. I've known some men who are more "scatterbrained" than some women. I've known some women who've acted less intelligent than they really are in order to not appear dominant (and viceversa, though less common). Men and women are both biologically different and culturally conditioned differently, but we are more similar than the culture portrays us to be - or how we're taugt to be. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| rach123 wrote: |
| Better yet, volunteer at a battered women's shelter, raise awareness about FGM, advocate for equal pay (yes, there still is a gap), or whatever... do something constructive whether it be for women's rights or human rights. |
And here we go with the women, women, women thing again. This is the kind of lobbying I'm talking about. To the feminist, it's all about women. Never mind that men also suffer from domestic abuse, and that that fact is virtually ignored by our society at large, you should be spending your time helping women. Never mind that FGM is something that happens in third world countries that none of us have control over, while MGM is something that commonly happens in our own country where we do have a say, you should be spending your time on women's causes. Advocate for an end to the "pay gap" (which is based on incredibly questionable statistics in the first place using methods which actively seek to find a pay gap without taking the full details of the situation into account), but ignore the college education gap (women are both attending college and graduating at a greater rate than men). Women, women, women, that's what it's about to the feminist.
Modern feminism is a sexist pro-female lobbying movement. That's all there is to it.
| rach123 wrote: |
| As for women being "more scatterbrained"... I went to law school and over half the students in my class were women. |
And yet you think nothing of that inequality, despite the fact that it's reflected on college campuses all over the country. When it's a perceived inequality women face, you get up in arms. When it's a perceived inequality men face, you use it to defend women's intelligence. You're hardly unique in this: it's the feminist modus operandi. "If it not in our favor, it's oppression. If it's in our favor, it's just that we worked harder/were smarter/planned better/etc."
You've got your vote. You've got your right to work for whatever terms you can work out with your employer. You've got your protection from discrimination based on gender. You also have a large number of unethical benefits over men, some of which are trivial (exclusion from the draft, since it will never come up), some of which are not trivial (preferential treatment in divorce settlement, greater difficulty in being fired for legitimate reasons out of fear of a law suit, etc). But it's still not enough, and it never will be. Mises' article is right, at the core of feminism, there's an ethic of, "No matter what your situation is, you're being oppressed and you need to take a stand against it." |
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rach123
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm not anti-male and there is lots of variety in types of feminism, for some it might be more personal than political and vice versa. It's not a black and white issue. By posting things about supporting women's issues, does not automatically mean I'm excluding men and men's issues. It's not that dualistic. This thread was titled the problem with feminism and so as a feminist, I felt compelled to speak up. About the law school statement, I was trying to give an example to the person who said women are more scatterbrained than men that women can in fact think. Also, I'm just happy that we can feel confident enough to be a part of institutions where not that long ago we were not accepted or welcomed.
Sure, raise awareness about MGM and the fact that one of it's original purposes may have been to prevent men from masturbating or experiencing pleasure. That's not right.
I have a friend who works at a non-profit that helps families who deal with domestic violence and they work with both the men and women. I think its great that they address the suffering of men, too, whether they be the perpetrator or victim. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| rach123 wrote: |
| By posting things about supporting women's issues, does not automatically mean I'm excluding men and men's issues. It's not that dualistic. |
A commonly used smoke-screen by feminists. "Just because I don't talk about men's issues, that doesn't mean they aren't important," they say, before they continue to go on about women's issues and neglect men's issues. Such a statement would be meaningful if feminists did give equal time -- or even a somewhat comparable amount of time -- to similar issues faced by men, but they invariably do not.
It's easy to say "Feminism is for everyone," but it very clearly is not. Humanism is for everyone. Feminism is for women, and only women. When women were uniquely and severely discriminated against, such a pro-female approach to social problems had some merit, because women really did need the special attention. They no longer do, and a more holistic approach is required to make real progress on social issues.
For what it's worth, I don't think you yourself want to engage in such behavior. I have no doubt you're a reasonable person who really does simply want everyone to be treated equally. I think you just don't realize exactly what you've been conscripted into by the writers whose literature you've been "educated" by. I hope you'll think it over and recognize what feminism has actually been working towards in modern society, and instead recognize that a campaign for genuine equality in the eyes of the law requires gender-free terminology and rhetoric, something feminism is de facto incapable of providing. |
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gypsymaria
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Location: Anyang-si, Gyeonggi-do
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rach123
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Love the link to the comic.
Sorry, for those who keep saying I've been brainwashed by feminism I don't think that's true. Women's rights have only been around for the last half of this century, so yeah, it took A LOT of work and how long have men dominated in most every culture? I have a hard time sympathizing with men who say feminism is only for women and therefore biased. Like I say, the world is not that dualistic (I've never heard of this being a common smokescreen used by feminists, like there's some united front using the same tactics). We all have traits of masculine and feminine. When one half suffers we all do, whether it be male or female. And if one half dominates another, both sexes suffer. Since I'm a woman and have experienced sexism myself, often in the workplace, sometimes by ex-bf's, I have no problem with the women, women, women ad nauseum. How many times have you guys had senior male employers wink at you, comment on your looks in a creepy way, or make sexist jokes about women in meetings? Yes, all my experiences and it's 2010. I am NOT saying this doesn't happen to men, but really, isn't it obvious that women experience more sexism than men? Of course things are better than in the past, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to deal with anymore.
Here is a quote I found on Wikpedia by the philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau: 'for example thought that it was the order of nature for woman to obey men. He wrote "Women do wrong to complain of the inequality of man-made laws" and claimed that "when she tries to usurp our rights, she is our inferior".' I know this was way back when... but this and even worse are what women had to overcome and by the comments on this thread, I sense a similar sentiment, though coming in a more modern package. Like I said, there are different types of feminism and the more militant-type of the 70's is hardly the modern version. One more thing - there ARE feminist men and men who support feminism. I think I'm done with this thread now...
Last edited by rach123 on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: |
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The funniest thing about feminism is that it is based upon what men are doing. Women striving to attain what they think men are entitled to and they aren't. When a goal is based upon what someone else is doing, that someone else defines the goal. If men got together and decided they wanted to stay at home and raise children, feminists would complain that they were being excluded from the domestic realm and being forced to work outside the home!
In Canada, where I'm from, women do have equal rights under the law - Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says so. Equal standing under the law is all a government can really provide - the right to challenge a situation you feel is unfair, not the total elimination of unfair situations. |
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BaldTeacher
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| One more thing - there ARE feminist men and men who support feminism. |
Yeah and there's a special name for them- manginas.
Gypsymaria, that cartoon was ridiculous. Not only is it inaccurate, it's very poorly conceived and exucuted. It's one of the most lackluster pieces of attempted comedy that I've ever seen. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to find out what feminism will lead to then go visit one of the Scandinavian countries. In Sweden, feminists have advocated that urinals be banned. Urinals allow men to stand up while peeing but women have to sit down. Feminists argue that this symbolizes male dominance and is degrading to women.
Prostitution has been legally defined as an act of male violence against women in Sweden. Thus, only the men are punished (by a fine and up to six months in prison). Such is the logic of radical feminist ideology- that women are always the victims and men are always the oppressors. Some Swedish prostitutes have complained that this law has scared away their nice and normal customers and that they have to deal with more dangerous and possibly sadistic types of customers who are more willing to risk breaking the law. Norway and Finland have passed similar laws.
Both Saudi Arabia and Iceland like to keep women covered up but for different reasons. Iceland banned strip clubs this year because of feminism-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/25/iceland-most-feminist-country |
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Tundra_Creature
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BaldTeacher wrote: |
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| One more thing - there ARE feminist men and men who support feminism. |
Yeah and there's a special name for them- manginas.
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Not really. Let's look at it this way. Let's say you're married and have kids. Suddenly and unfortuntely, you end up dying, so it is up to your wife to work in order to put bread on the table. Wouldn't you rather you rather your wife be able to be able to get the pay because she's a hard worker and has to support a family and not because she's a male?
Yeah, there's some dumbass stuff in feminism, but there's dumbass stuff in masculism as well. Men treating women as an object is just as bad as women treating men as a bank machine. Men shouldn't beat women, but women shouldn't be considered 'victims' when they chuck furniture at their boyfriend's head.
NilesQ- Being a female Canadian myself (and I choose to believe I'm for equal rights), I'm all for 'stay at home' husbands. Actually, I've seen a couple that my mother worked with and that's how they worked. The wife was the main breadwinner of the house and the husband worked partime and did most of the cooking and took care of the kids more since she had to travel quite a bit. They were a really nice family.
I know a number of women who don't have a problem with that idea either. Of course, I also know women who also don't understand what the reason of feminism was in the first place.
Kepler- And the urinals things is just stupid. They also came out with an item for girls to pee standing up. Like... really. Any girl who honestly thinks that way beyond looking at the proper issue. If that ever comes to Canada, then I shall guarentee that I will be one of the women fighting against that.
You guys need to start hanging out with saner women.  |
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