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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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 Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Gatsby, your posts have been incredibly informative on the hazards of traditional ondol, followed up with an excellent point that there doesn't seem to be much awareness or public education here on carbon monoxide.
However, here is a genuine question:
If most of the heating system has switched from fire to recirculated water since the 1960s, how is carbon monoxide from the heating system still such a pervasive threat? I guess I don't know much about the recirculated water system to understand this connection.
edit: Ok, I went back to a prior post and see that you mentioned kerosene heaters. But, who the heck uses kerosene heaters these days? I've always seen people use ondol to heat their hearths, but then again, I've only been in two truly rural homes, and one did have the traditional ondol system, and one had a water circulated system.
Anyway, I guess the next question would be how widespread is kerosene and/or traditional ondol heating in Korea today, or even a decade or two ago? I guess that information would help put your theory into perspective. But, it's just a thought, because I know that would probably be impossible to find out. However, your argument is a compelling one.
edit 2: I found at least one link of South Korean manufacturers of Kerosene heaters, and come to think of it, a lot of the cooking stoves here use propane gas, which is also a risk. Actually, my former dwelling in a rural province had terrible indicators for both the patchy, old ondol system and the propane gas stove - holy cow!!! Thanks for the wake-up call.
http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm
http://mt.list-of-companies.org/Korea/Keywords/Kerosene_Heater/12.html |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| calicoe wrote: |
| edit: Ok, I went back to a prior post and see that you mentioned kerosene heaters. But, who the heck uses kerosene heaters these days? |
The apartment of the other foreign teacher at my school uses kerosene heating. I think it's more common than many of us realize. A lot of Koreans in rural areas even still burn those big coal cylinders for heat. |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I can see how this may be even more widespread now with the jump in oil prices (over the last few years) as the price of propane and kerosene has dropped.
edit: typos |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| calicoe wrote: |
| edit: Ok, I went back to a prior post and see that you mentioned kerosene heaters. But, who the heck uses kerosene heaters these days? |
The apartment of the other foreign teacher at my school uses kerosene heating. I think it's more common than many of us realize. A lot of Koreans in rural areas even still burn those big coal cylinders for heat. |
A lot of schools still use those kerosene heaters. Students love heating their potatoes on them.
In one of my apartments I also had to fill up my boiler with gas, or something, but the boiler was in a common 'gas' room somewhere else in the building. So no chance of getting poisoned to death, unless I decided to keep my propane stove running all night long. I always leave the window slightly open all year round.
Anyways, in my part of Canada old furnaces have a tendency to kill via carbon monoxide. Every winter there is always a few cases that make the nightly news. Luckily my bedroom was in the basement, the safest part of the home if there is an issue with gas. |
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illvibetip
Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Location: south korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by illvibetip on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Gatsby wrote: |
le-paul wrote:
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| and years of back breaking labour bent over in rice fields... |
Just out of curiosity, on what do you base this diagnosis?
Is it based on a knowledge of medicine?
Or could it just be a wild guess, le paul?
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etc etc.
Woo, someone got out of the wrong side of the bed! Do you feel a bit attacked or something?
actually, yeah, it was a bit of a guess to be honest (please dont get annoyed at me sir!!). But, yeah, it was based a bit on knowledge of medicine and a bit of observation.
I thought that since they sometimes spent so much time in the fields, it may have an effect on their posture may have effected their bodies (seen this first hand when working with physio in old people. Just so you dont get annoyed at me...).
http://www.ehow.com/about_5135303_effects-bad-posture.html
the other thing I think too is that the other poster was right a bit that bad diet may contribute (ie osteoporosis).
Just so you dont get offended, here's a link to that too;
http://www.bmihealthcare.co.uk/treatment/treatmentsdetail?gclid=CKOxqtDG-qQCFQsGbAoduilKhw&p_treatment_name=Bone%20densitometry%20scanning&p_treatment_id=178
and just one more to support my 'wild guess' (since were writing academic papers here and need to substantiate everything with evidence) - sorry, just f##king kidding... ha ha
there is a possiblity it could be Kyphosis (i just guessed by observing - oops!) but anyway, here you go;
http://www.medicineonline.com/articles/d/2/Dowagers-Hump/Kyphosis.html
plenty of reading there eh?! - really without evaluating every case, theres no way of knowing who is right bescause there could be a lot of contributing factors (and yes, I am basing that on medical experience)
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: |
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One of my favorite things to do is make fun of people with superstitious beliefs. I can't wait until tomorrow to quiz my Korean acquaintances at pharm school on fan death! woo hoo  |
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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I write:
| Quote: |
| I'm not talking about arthritis. I'm not talking about osteoporosis. |
And le-paul writes:
| Quote: |
etc etc.
Woo, someone got out of the wrong side of the bed! Do you feel a bit attacked or something?
actually, yeah, it was a bit of a guess to be honest (please dont get annoyed at me sir!!). But, yeah, it was based a bit on knowledge of medicine and a bit of observation.
I thought that since they sometimes spent so much time in the fields, it may have an effect on their posture may have effected their bodies (seen this first hand when working with physio in old people. Just so you dont get annoyed at me...).
http://www.ehow.com/about_5135303_effects-bad-posture.html
the other thing I think too is that the other poster was right a bit that bad diet may contribute (ie osteoporosis).
Just so you dont get offended, here's a link to that too;
http://www.bmihealthcare.co.uk/treatment/treatmentsdetail?gclid=CKOxqtDG-qQCFQsGbAoduilKhw&p_treatment_name=Bone%20densitometry%20scanning&p_treatment_id=178
and just one more to support my 'wild guess' (since were writing academic papers here and need to substantiate everything with evidence) - sorry, just f##king kidding... ha ha
there is a possiblity it could be Kyphosis (i just guessed by observing - oops!) but anyway, here you go;
http://www.medicineonline.com/articles/d/2/Dowagers-Hump/Kyphosis.html
plenty of reading there eh?! - really without evaluating every case, theres no way of knowing who is right bescause there could be a lot of contributing factors (and yes, I am basing that on medical experience) |
What does this have to do with fan death, le-paul?
While you're figuring that out, consider this:
I'm not talking about splenomegaly, ingrown toenails, lichenification, acne, elephantiasis, cataracts, miscegeny, onchocerciasism, exocytosis, lumbago, utter irrelevancy, or the Canary Islands, either. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatsby wrote: |
I write:
What does this have to do with fan death, le-paul?
While you're figuring that out, consider this:
I'm not talking about splenomegaly, ingrown toenails, lichenification, acne, elephantiasis, cataracts, miscegeny, onchocerciasism, exocytosis, lumbago, utter irrelevancy, or the Canary Islands, either. |
Well kids, lets get started again (all nice an� anal like�) heres the definition of �thread� (we�ll keep to evidence since that seems to be the only thing that will satisfy your �Id� and �ego� ( quote �According to this model of the psyche, the id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual trends; the ego is the organised, realistic part�, wikipedi � for convenience�).
Heres what the definition of thread is�
�In online discussions, a series of messages that have been posted as replies to each other. A single forum or conference typically contains many threads covering different subjects. By reading each message in a thread, one after the other, you can see how the discussion has evolved.�
See that word �evolve� here�s what a dictionary says about it;
�To undergo gradual change; develop�.
Bear with me, I am going somewhere with this�
You said:
The problem is hot air ondol heating has killed countless thousands of Koreans over the years, and left thousands or perhaps millions with brain damage and partial paralysis. You can see these semi-paralyzed people slowly hobbling around many rural Korean towns with a blank stare.
Then interestedinhanguk said:
More likely from malnutrition during childhood. You know this was a very poor country way back when.
So I said;
and years of back breaking labour bent over in rice fields...
(to which I was referring specifically to the �semi-paralyzed people slowly hobbling around many rural Korean towns with a blank stare�)..
so then you said:
Just out of curiosity, on what do you base this diagnosis? Is it based on a knowledge of medicine?
Or could it just be a wild guess, le paul?
So I justified why I�d made that comment with blah blah blah�
So, it is a small deviation from the thread � an evolution you could say. You posed the point to me that I was speculating massively and I in return, responded with support for my claim as to why I believed these people looked as though they were in a semi-paralyzed state � made from observation. (incidently at risk of annoying you further, I don�t think their blank stares are because of carbon monoxide poisoning either. My girlfriends from a small village and that�s just how people look out there. Once you get talking to them, theyre actually quite normal. Bracing for impact�)
Anyway, maybe this is a case of crossed wires or even a misunderstanding perhaps?
Whatever, I don�t mind. I think I defended myself in making that insignificant comment of 11 words sufficiently?
And really, this is esl c-afe! If you don�t want people upsetting your threads/points � go to a real forum where you can have scientific debates and more pragmatic arguments if that�s what youre looking for. Most people on here who read these threads are at work and bored (like myself) and youre going to have to learn to accept that people are going to make throw away comments and hijack other peoples conversations. It�s the nature of forums. If you want to discuss on a forum, youre going to have to accept that people can jump in anytime they want. Its not a private discussion � I can say what I want unless it offends the mods.
Im bored now, Im going to check the science forum that I use everyday because I posted something about people who have an inferiority complex. And want to know what Dr karl thinks about it. |
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illvibetip
Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Location: south korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| One of my favorite things to do is make fun of people with superstitious beliefs. I can't wait until tomorrow to quiz my Korean acquaintances at pharm school on fan death! woo hoo |
Before doing that, you should read what the other poster linked to fan death on wiki - its nuts! people actually believe that fans cut up the oxygen into small bits with their blades and suck it off your face?
They spend 20 hours a day at school here - what do they study cos it sure isnt the science that I learned at school...
Can you imagine making a movie about this? Theres with a bunch of incompetent police men bumbling around korea playing on the little vending machines and getting wrecked on soju everyday in thier spare time (which they have a lot of). Then they discover someone dead in a forest thats been mauled by a bear or something. They are not sure what it is, so they think (without want for a better explanation or without collecting any evidence) - it must be a fan!
It has endless possiblilities this movie - you could blame all kinds of scenarios on fans.
You could just re-make '7' and put a fan in each room and 1 in the box at the end...  |
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