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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: Lines 5-8 Hanja to Simplified Characters? |
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I noticed that on lines 5 and 8 the characters on the maps inside the carriages has been changed from Hanja to Simplified Chinese, and on some of the signs too.
When did this happen? Why? Does anyone know more about this? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/한자
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| There appears to have been an attempt in Korea to simplify hanja for a Korean audience, but the method appears to be a haphazard mishmashing of Japanese and Chinese simplification together, and a clear reason is lacking for the change. Hanja textbooks one year ago did not have this simplification, but the books for the 한자검정능력시험 (Hanja proficiency test) seem to have these new simplified characters here and there. |
Is this really happening? Simplifying 한자 seems like an incredibly stupid idea. They all ready have 한글 if they want to represent characters in a simplified fashion. I suppose maybe they want Koreans to learn a simplified 한자 set so they can apply it to both Korean and Chinese? But if that's so, why include some Japanese simplification too? It doesn't make sense. |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Simplification perfect sense. I don't think you understand the purpose of hanja.
First some background info, hanja is used to clear up the meaning of something. For example 가장 is not just made up of only 2 Chinese characters, because there are two different meanings. So sometimes you will see in written text where words like 가장 appear and in parenthesis you'll see which characters it's made of. For example: "가장 (家長)"
Depending on the meaning, it could one of the two:
-家長
-假裝
Hangeul is not related to simplifying things. The problem is Korean uses old Chinese characters, that even China has simplified. The new simplified characters are not only easier to read, but less of a pain to write.
To see the difference below, i'd recommend zooming on the text (hold control and using your mouse wheel up/down)
OLD NEW
區 区
國 国
驛 驿 |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| Simplification perfect sense. I don't think you understand the purpose of hanja. |
I understand the purpose just fine: to disambiguate. Generally, Koreans will be reading Hanja rather than writing them, and while reading them, a more complex character is no more difficult to understand (in fact, in my own experience learning Hanja, a more complex character is easier to remember, even if it's slower to write). Simplification only eases the burden of Hanja in writing, and most Koreans rarely write Hanja by hand.
Simplifying Hanzi in China made some sense. Simplifying Hanja in Korea is just a waste of time, and makes Hanja an even greater chore for Koreans with an interest in using them, since they'll have to learn both the old ones and the new ones in order to access all the Hanja-based material available to them. Anyone who wants to write something in a fast-and-easy way will be using Hangeul (for all you think writing something in Hangeul doesn't make it a faster and simpler process, it very clearly does). |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:55 am Post subject: |
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That wiki article lacks references. It's the first I've heard of an attempt to simplify hanja.
The changes look like they are from Hanja (basically Traditional Chinese) to Simplified Chinese.
I first noticed it when I saw that 東 had become 东. This and other ones I noticed such as slowmotion's 區 > 区 I recognized from trips to China.
You can also hear Mandarin announcements on trains and buses now so it seems that maybe the Simplified Chinese is for Chinese tourists.
If there has been a simplification of Hanja (it's the first I've heard of it, and that link lacks references), does anyone have a link to information that clarifies the changes?
I find it pretty unlikely that Hanja has been revised without public uproar - my kids are still studying Hanja in its orginal form, that is, 동 = 東, 구 = 區 and 국 = 國. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:49 am Post subject: |
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haha funny you say that, because I first learned hanja on the subway today, staring at the map and looking for easy ones like 大.
It would make sense for tourists, however what doesn't make sense is them keeping the names the same as the korean pronunciation, but putting everything else in Japanese/Chinese.
Like Japanese as no 받침 but they pronounce all the station names as if it had 받침s. The information it gives is pretty useless and the important info for transfering and other announcements are never made except in Korean and sometimes in English. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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This guy's not happy about it either:
http://blog.naver.com/bigstar3?Redirect=Log&logNo=50053957302
I assume they decided that with the limited space it was best to use simplified hanzi and went with that. It's too bad everybody went and simplified hanja/kanji etc. in their own way after WWII as this could have easily been avoided if they didn't all hate each other after the war. |
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No more learning Hanja from the subway for me 