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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kepler wrote: |
If you want to find out what feminism will lead to then go visit one of the Scandinavian countries. In Sweden, feminists have advocated that urinals be banned. Urinals allow men to stand up while peeing but women have to sit down. Feminists argue that this symbolizes male dominance and is degrading to women.
Prostitution has been legally defined as an act of male violence against women in Sweden. Thus, only the men are punished (by a fine and up to six months in prison). Such is the logic of radical feminist ideology- that women are always the victims and men are always the oppressors. Some Swedish prostitutes have complained that this law has scared away their nice and normal customers and that they have to deal with more dangerous and possibly sadistic types of customers who are more willing to risk breaking the law. Norway and Finland have passed similar laws.
Both Saudi Arabia and Iceland like to keep women covered up but for different reasons. Iceland banned strip clubs this year because of feminism-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/25/iceland-most-feminist-country |
Very good examples of how far the pro-women lobbying movement that is feminism is willing to push things if given the license to do so. And as the prostitution example demonstrates, they're even willing to throw some women's livelihoods on the fire in order to continue their assault against men. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| rach123 wrote: |
| Since I'm a woman ... I have no problem with the women, women, women ad nauseum. |
Subtract the subjective "I've experienced sexism, blah blah blah," bit, and we have the core of modern feminism. Women for women.
| rach123 wrote: |
| How many times have you guys had senior male employers wink at you, comment on your looks in a creepy way, or make sexist jokes about women in meetings? |
Newsflash: men joke around. We joke around with each other, and we joke around with women. By defining sexism as "jokes and winks" the modern feminist movement has simply ensured it will always have fuel to fire its pro-female lobbying efforts.
When you get fired for being a woman, I'm on your side. When your boss tells you to put out or get out, I'm on your side. When someone at the office winks at you, I think you're just being a crybaby, and when you complain about someone at the office telling a joke you don't like, I'm left feeling you need to lighten up.
| rach123 wrote: |
| I am NOT saying this doesn't happen to men, but really, isn't it obvious that women experience more sexism than men? |
No, it's not. In fact, your suggestion that it's obvious that women experience more is a type of sexist thinking, demonstrative of trivializing the sexism that gets directed at men while over-emphasizing that which gets directed at women.
| rach123 wrote: |
| Here is a quote I found on Wikpedia by the philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau: |
Rosseau died in 1778. So while we have people like Kepler accurately pointing out the socially-destructive behavior of modern feminism, we have you citing centuries dead philosophers in order to defend said modern feminism. Bravo.
No, nothing in this thread is like the quotes you've pulled out of the past. The men in this thread are generally of a mind: women deserve equal legal rights. The fact that you'd compare our case to the one you cited is makes me think that you aren't really thinking this through, but instead are just chanting what you've been told to believe by your feminist authors.
| rach123 wrote: |
| One more thing - there ARE feminist men and men who support feminism. |
There are many men who support equal legal rights for women. There are very few men who support what modern feminism has become; modern men who say they are "feminists" are invariably working off of a definition that doesn't match up with reality. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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No person and and no idea is perfect. One can always find something to criticize. Sometimes, it is just a question of which do you focus on: the bad parts or the good parts. A lot of the critics of feminism only focus on the negative parts - especially the negative parts of a few radical feminists rather than look at a more complete picture.
Maybe, a better question is what good has feminism brought? I will provide some. Please feel free to add others...
1. In most countries, women have a right to vote
2. In most countries, women are treated equally to men before the law
3. In most countries, women have a right to make choices about who they marry and what they do with their bodies
4. In most countries, women have access to education equally to men
5. In most countries, women have a right to pursue a career
6. In most countries, women have a right to pursue a career in the same fields as men
7. In most countries, most countries women are taught that they are free and have a right to persue their own individual happiness
8. In most countries, women have a right to to study about what it is to be a woman and have had the opportunity to learn more about being a woman
I am sure there are more things. And, I am sure there are more things that feminists want.
I also think that if feminism were to be discredited, some of these things would disappear. Freedom requires continued vigilance. Just because some of these things seem like ancient history doesn't mean that they can be lost.
There are definitely men who would like to see some of these things end. And, I think feminism still plays an important role in helping all people understand women better. |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Man=Superior
woman=inferior |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Yeah Fox you TELL those women!
*group hug* (no homo) |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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The article below argues against paternity testing on grounds that women should be able to declare paternity without evidence and that the man declared should thus be forced into a financially supporting role:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/6391918/whos-the-daddy.thtml
| Quote: |
DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science, a change in the balance of power between the sexes that we�ve hardly come to terms with. And that holds true even though many women have the economic potential to provide for their children themselves�Uncertainty allows mothers to select for their children the father who would be best for them.
The point is that paternity was ambiguous and it was effectively up to the mother to name her child�s father, or not� Many men have, of course, ended up raising children who were not genetically their own, but really, does it matter�in making paternity conditional on a test rather than the say-so of the mother, it has removed from women a powerful instrument of choice. |
This is feminism today. It is vile. |
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BaldTeacher
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Mises, you beat me to it. Here's another post on the subject from one of my favorite blogs:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/ |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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rach123
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Newsflash: men joke around. We joke around with each other, and we joke around with women. By defining sexism as "jokes and winks" the modern feminist movement has simply ensured it will always have fuel to fire its pro-female lobbying efforts.
When you get fired for being a woman, I'm on your side. When your boss tells you to put out or get out, I'm on your side. When someone at the office winks at you, I think you're just being a crybaby, and when you complain about someone at the office telling a joke you don't like, I'm left feeling you need to lighten up. |
I wonder how Baldteacher, Fox, and your ilk would feel if they had to work with exceedingly open gay men who winked and just "joked around" and it was considered okay--that complaining would be "being a crybaby."
I've had a couple guy friends that have been bothered by gay men and it was such a big deal for them... how would they feel if it was a regular occurrence? But it's ok if women are bothered by men, then it's just joking around. As far as my work experiences, were you there? Do you know what *kind* of wink it was? Hmmm, guess I'm just over sensitive. And I should be flattered, right? Also, the "joke" was overtly sexual toward the women in a law firm meeting... and the partner later apologized, I guess I should be grateful.
Go ahead rip me apart and try to find the secret underlying feminist propaganda in what I wrote..... |
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BaldTeacher
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I wonder how Baldteacher, Fox, and your ilk would feel if they had to work with exceedingly open gay men who winked and just "joked around" and it was considered okay--that complaining would be "being a crybaby."
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How cute is the guy? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| rach123 wrote: |
I wonder how Baldteacher, Fox, and your ilk would feel if they had to work with exceedingly open gay men who winked and just "joked around" and it was considered okay--that complaining would be "being a crybaby."
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I wouldn't particularly care. People winking at me doesn't offend me, nor does people telling jokes. The old groundstaker at our school used to tell jokes at my expense like insisting that my face was pretty and I'd make a lovely woman. He wasn't gay, but it was still something someone like you would whine about as harassment. I just laughed about it. If you can't laugh off silly little things like that, then it's your own emotional instability that's causing problems, not "harassment."
Didn't you say you were done with this thread? I'm not ushering you out or anything, but it's really a bit tiresome when people falsely claim they are leaving in hopes of ending a conversation they know they aren't doing well in, only to continue participating when the other person doesn't fall for their little trick.
If you're going to stick around, why not stop with the hypotheticals and instead try addressing the feminism-driven incidents certain people are posting links to? That is, after all, the heart of what we're talking about: modern feminism and the socially harmful actions it inspired. I especially liked mises' link about paternity testing, it illustrates modern feminism's essence very well: empowerment for women, without regard to reason, fairness, or ethics. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think your male friends are immature. I've been told by a few gay guys that they "wanted to *beep* me". My exact words were that I find the offer flattering but I must reluctantly refuse. Can't your friend rejoice in the fact that others affirm that they are handsome?
Don't worry, this isn't some elaborate trap. We are just talking.
*group hug* (homo this time) |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh Rach, do you agree that "DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science"? |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| rach123 wrote: |
I wonder how Baldteacher, Fox, and your ilk would feel if they had to work with exceedingly open gay men who winked and just "joked around" and it was considered okay--that complaining would be "being a crybaby."
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I wouldn't particularly care. People winking at me doesn't offend me, nor does people telling jokes. The old groundstaker at our school used to tell jokes at my expense like insisting that my face was pretty and I'd make a lovely woman. He wasn't gay, but it was still something someone like you would whine about as harassment. I just laughed about it. If you can't laugh off silly little things like that, then it's your own emotional instability that's causing problems, not "harassment."
Didn't you say you were done with this thread? I'm not ushering you out or anything, but it's really a bit tiresome when people falsely claim they are leaving in hopes of ending a conversation they know they aren't doing well in, only to continue participating when the other person doesn't fall for their little trick.
If you're going to stick around, why not stop with the hypotheticals and instead try addressing the feminism-driven incidents certain people are posting links to? That is, after all, the heart of what we're talking about: modern feminism and the socially harmful actions it inspired. I especially liked mises' link about paternity testing, it illustrates modern feminism's essence very well: empowerment for women, without regard to reason, fairness, or ethics. |
Your argument is a sham. You cherry pick extreme elements of a very large group and then say it proves the whole thing is some sort of crazy sham. It's like pointing to Louis Farrakhan and claiming that is the essence of civil rights in America or the Westboro Baptist church illustrates how Christianity is socially harmful. It's intellectually dishonest. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| ...Christianity is socially harmful... |
Well... |
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