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lakeshow
Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
observations when at home:
1. strict alcohol laws
2. strict tobacco laws
3. aggressive people
4. car culture
5. things are so far apart
6. Short business hours
7. high taxes
8. pubic transportation is not convenient
9. lots of Asians there too
10. gang shootings / killings |
you from cali? whatup homie! |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| your own source puts Korea ahead on arguably the two most important indicators: education and the economy. |
Umm, looks like my source supports my position of only one indicator being better (education is marginally better in Korea, economics are essentially equal-within the margin of error).
Or you can go look for yourself and see the UK ranked overall at #13 and South Korea ranked overall at #27.
As for your argument about mental health. Really? You think Korea is great for that sort of thing? Really?
As for safety. Go look at the stats. Korea is not nearly as safe as the vast majority of waigooks think. Perceptions of safety are not supported by fact.
http://ataglance.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/violent-crime/
| Quote: |
| It's worth noting too that there is next to nothing on infrastructure or mental health either. There's evidence of really poor scholarship in those findings. |
Well, there are 20 variables relating to health. Take your pick. But before you get in a slagging match with me regarding health care in Korea, be aware I just spent a week in a Korean hospital having contracted a third world disease (2 days in CCU). I've seen it and lived it. It is not that great. And my perception is supported by quantitative stats.
As for statistics based on opinion/perception. They are called qualitative. Not as rigorous as quantitative, but should not be dismissed either as they can be generalized - see central limit theory.
Look, I have no horse in this UK thing. I am not from there. But you clearly suggest the UK is considerably less in all measures as compared to Korea, when it clearly is not (other than your perception-which I am not discrediting, just not generalizing).
There are good things about Korea. There are bad things about Korea. Then there are myths perpetuated by apologists and haters. You strike me as an apologist. |
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allovertheplace
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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This post has gone way astray as per usual.
But to be fair...nothing at home is good? Well if you came to Korea because everything sucked at home...well I guess that explains a lot.
Preference is a different thing, but also remember, we are expats. Korea is great blah blah blah. Go spend 40% of your money on your kids eduaction and tell me you love it.
Being an expat anywhere seems to be fun...being from somewhere is a different story. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: What do you honestly think when you go home? |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| sulperman wrote: |
| allovertheplace wrote: |
But seriously, Ive been out at bars in Toronto and standing outside I'll meet 3 or 4 people who taught in Korea. Apparently, this is not a 'special' experience.
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Considering the number of people I have met teaching here who are from Toronto, this is not surprising in the least. I always figured that half of the university grads from that area ended up here. |
Yeah at the rate at which young Canadians are going to Korea it's not going to be an issue much longer. Instead of "why did you decide to go to Korea to teach English and how do you think your teaching experience prepared you for this job?" It will be "oh hey, my brother/sister/niece/nephew/friend/former roommate taught English in Korea too. Were you in Seoul? Did you teach public school or hagwon?" |
This is what I got the last time I was back home. Considering teaching is my profession and I wasn't there for a year for the "experience" it sometimes can come off as insulting.
I first came in 1997 and not a lot of people were doing it back then, and when I would tell people from back home about my experiences, they could not relate at all.
When I went back to do a B.Ed, some of the stories made for good laughs, and some people were shocked, especially when I would tell stories of Korean teachers punching students in the face or drop kicking them in the teacher's office.
I am back in Asia and have told my family until I got a lot of cash socked away, chances are slim I'll be teaching in Canada...I just feel WAY more comfortable teaching Asian students and living the Asian lifestyle. (Though the pollution factor is something in the back of my mind...) |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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every time i go home, i notice:
-how expensive everything is
-obese people
-strict driving & alcohol laws |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad-ish wrote: |
every time i go home, i notice:
-how expensive everything is
-obese people
-strict driving & alcohol laws |
Not to mention:
- eerily quiet
- TV and newspaper ads trying to sell you everything under the sun
- HORRIBLE public transportation service |
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grant_steves
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad-ish wrote: |
every time i go home, i notice:
-how expensive everything is
-obese people
-strict driving & alcohol laws |
I think that eating out and taxis are expensive....but across the board there are plenty of things that are cheaper at home, so I think that it all depends on your perspective.....plus, most of my friends make at least $5,000/month, if not much much more, so the higher costs at home are relative. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
| Quote: |
| your own source puts Korea ahead on arguably the two most important indicators: education and the economy. |
Umm, looks like my source supports my position of only one indicator being better (education is marginally better in Korea, economics are essentially equal-within the margin of error).
Or you can go look for yourself and see the UK ranked overall at #13 and South Korea ranked overall at #27. |
Again, please go back to your own source:
http://www.prosperity.com/economy.aspx
Irrespective of the margin, Korea is ahead of the UK in both the economy and education. This is at odds with your original claim that it is ahead in only one of the indicators and it is the second time I have had to point this out.
Did you read your own link? It compares the US and Korea! In the UK - which has a higher violent crime rate than the US - there are over 2000 violent crimes per 100,000 residents. That's way higher than your figures for Korea (nearly 500 per 100,000 in 2005).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
| Quote: |
| Well, there are 20 variables relating to health. Take your pick. But before you get in a slagging match with me regarding health care in Korea, be aware I just spent a week in a Korean hospital having contracted a third world disease (2 days in CCU). I've seen it and lived it. It is not that great. And my perception is supported by quantitative stats. |
Do you really want to get stuck into the NHS's record on this kind of thing? |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Did you read your own link? |
Um, yes. The statement was that Korea is not as safe as people make out. I was not referring to the UK. I was making a statement of general principle.
While on the idea of general principles, your post was a rant about every thing in the UK as being in the toilet. My response was to show that is not the case. Legnum prosperity indicates that the UK is still a better place to live, as does every other comparative study I have come across. If you have stats that show Korea as better to live than the UK, please provide a link.
| Quote: |
| Do you really want to get stuck into the NHS's record on this kind of thing? |
Sorry, I don't know what you mean here. Not trying to be obtuse, but what is NHS? |
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sakruk
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Are you British? The UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US? Come on - you can't seriously rely on the Daily Mail for objective statistics - it's a scaremongering rag not even worth wiping your arse on! |
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grant_steves
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| sakruk wrote: |
Are you British? The UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US? Come on - you can't seriously rely on the Daily Mail for objective statistics - it's a scaremongering rag not even worth wiping your arse on! |
Most Americans live in small towns, where the rates of violent crime are relatively low....I am sure that these vast numbers of bumpkins skew the data away from the handful of really dangerous cities that most people think of when they assess the crime situation in America.
Overall I think that the US is a pretty safe country...I lived outside a major city and literally didn't lock my door for 9 years. If you live in a problem neighborhood it can be VERY dangerous, but the vast majority of the country is safe.
I definitely agree that Korea being "safe" is a half-farce....it's relatively safe in terms of random crime, but the number of violent crimes in the home here are staggering. Violence is kept in the family, and not handed out randomly on the street. |
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lakeshow
Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| say what you will about crime in korea.. But it's one of the few, heck it's the only country I've personally been in, where I can dress "up", wear whatever jewelry I want, wear name-brand clothing, carry an expensive camera, and whip out my $300 wallet without having to tuck/hide anything in, be discreet, or watch over my back every 10 seconds for some punk scum of the earth thieves preying on my goodies. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| nomad-ish wrote: |
every time i go home, i notice:
-how expensive everything is
-obese people
-strict driving & alcohol laws |
Not to mention:
- eerily quiet
- TV and newspaper ads trying to sell you everything under the sun- HORRIBLE public transportation service |
That happens here too, it's just easier to ignore it. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
| Um, yes. The statement was that Korea is not as safe as people make out. I was not referring to the UK. I was making a statement of general principle. |
Why did we go from comparing the UK and Korea to making irrelevant statements about Korea not being as safe as people make out? Your source, which reaches its conclusions based on arbitrarily put-together indicators and opinion surveys, suggests that Korea is not as safe as the UK. This is part of the very findings you are relying on to support your position, so I ask you again: do you really believe the integrity of your own source? Nobody in their right mind would suggest that Korea is more unsafe than the UK - nobody but your source. This is of course is why I introduced statistics which show that there is four times as much violent crime per 100,000 people in the UK than Korea � a statistic which seems completely at odds Legnum�s position.
On a more qualitative note, I know of two East Asians who were mugged in London over the last two months - one of them was viciously assaulted too.
| Quote: |
| Legnum prosperity indicates that the UK is still a better place to live |
Well no, it doesn�t. It arbitrarily measures eight variables and ranks the UK higher than Korea in six of them. In arguably two of the most important � economy and education � Korea is ranked higher, but significant measures like infrastructure are largely overlooked, and for some unfathomable reason the UK is ranked as being a safer country too.
You might not agree but from where I am sitting the UK is in an absolute mess. Sure, Korea isn�t perfect and I have criticized it quite often on this board, but I cannot see many areas in which the UK is outperforming Korea. Your link uses a lot of qualitative data to support its findings which isn�t a problem in itself, but the way it is used is highly flawed. I could write a decent thesis poking holes in its findings - I kid you not. It's really just very average scholarship.
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| Sorry, I don't know what you mean here. Not trying to be obtuse, but what is NHS? |
It stands for the National Health Service. Now I happen to support universal health coverage, but it has not been plain sailing for the NHS over the last few years. Again, medical practice in Korea may not be beyond criticism � although my own experiences of it were very good � but on the issue if hospital infections, have a read about the MRSA scandal which has dogged the UK�s hospitals recently.
Last edited by Gwangjuboy on Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| sakruk wrote: |
Are you British? The UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US? Come on - you can't seriously rely on the Daily Mail for objective statistics - it's a scaremongering rag not even worth wiping your arse on! |
The Daily Mail is very suspect when it comes to its more subjective pieces, but the source of these statistics is clearly displayed. Although the newspaper is of questionable quality generally, I doubt that it would actually lie about where it got its stats from. In this case it claims that they are from the UN and the EU.
It's hardly scaremongering in this case either, as anyone who lives in the UK would say pretty much the same thing. Violent crime is something that affects a significant number here so it's not as though it's some abstract thing that you only ever read about. |
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