|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kaypea
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| languistic wrote: |
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| I learned quickly at the Hagwon that students have all the power and the teacher is their servant in many ways. |
So you think you don't or shouldn't serve the students? They pay your wage and their existence makes your livelihood.
Double header. |
That still doesn't make it right. |
Nature Girl, have you talked to the other instructors at your Uni? I've never taught at a Uni, but this idea of theirs sounds half-baked: like they maybe had decent intentions, but didn't think the whole thing through and thus made a mistake.
Yes, I think it's good to be learner-centered. You shouldn't think that if you're the teacher, you have the right to not even try to be interesting (I'm not naturally interesting, but I try and plan interesting lessons... it can be a challenge).
But, it sounds like your Uni isn't even making sure that the students understand how to do the evaluation! I find it hard to believe that you aren't speaking English in your classes, if only because I don't think you're a fluent Korean speaker. Obviously, the students don't understand the evaluation enough to give accurate evaluations.
So, it sounds like your Uni hasn't thought this thing through. What do the other instructors at your Uni think about this hairbrained approach to the evaluation? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kaypea wrote: |
Nature Girl, have you talked to the other instructors at your Uni? I've never taught at a Uni, but this idea of theirs sounds half-baked: like they maybe had decent intentions, but didn't think the whole thing through and thus made a mistake.
Yes, I think it's good to be learner-centered. You shouldn't think that if you're the teacher, you have the right to not even try to be interesting (I'm not naturally interesting, but I try and plan interesting lessons... it can be a challenge).
But, it sounds like your Uni isn't even making sure that the students understand how to do the evaluation! I find it hard to believe that you aren't speaking English in your classes, if only because I don't think you're a fluent Korean speaker. Obviously, the students don't understand the evaluation enough to give accurate evaluations.
So, it sounds like your Uni hasn't thought this thing through. What do the other instructors at your Uni think about this hairbrained approach to the evaluation? |
Uni doesn't want to change things, basically , this same eval is used for any and all teachers who teach in English, including Korean ones. As for the number of teaachers at my school who take the approach, well, it's a public forum and I'd rather not state specifics, but let's just say it's been more than a couple. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaypea
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Kaypea wrote: |
Nature Girl, have you talked to the other instructors at your Uni? I've never taught at a Uni, but this idea of theirs sounds half-baked: like they maybe had decent intentions, but didn't think the whole thing through and thus made a mistake.
Yes, I think it's good to be learner-centered. You shouldn't think that if you're the teacher, you have the right to not even try to be interesting (I'm not naturally interesting, but I try and plan interesting lessons... it can be a challenge).
But, it sounds like your Uni isn't even making sure that the students understand how to do the evaluation! I find it hard to believe that you aren't speaking English in your classes, if only because I don't think you're a fluent Korean speaker. Obviously, the students don't understand the evaluation enough to give accurate evaluations.
So, it sounds like your Uni hasn't thought this thing through. What do the other instructors at your Uni think about this hairbrained approach to the evaluation? |
Uni doesn't want to change things, basically , this same eval is used for any and all teachers who teach in English, including Korean ones. As for the number of teaachers at my school who take the approach, well, it's a public forum and I'd rather not state specifics, but let's just say it's been more than a couple. |
Argh.
To me, it makes sense to do student evals, but it's strange to give too much weight to them. Especially when it's obvious that the students either don't understand the evaluation questions, or are answering them wrong to be funny or because they don't like you for dumb reasons... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaypea
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
oops
Last edited by Kaypea on Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:27 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anamika
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Renewal is based on student evals?! |
|
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
It also doesn't help that our evals are unreliable and invalid. For example, I've got over 50% of my students saying that I never, hardly ever, or often speak English in class! |
If your renewal is based on evals, maybe you could request the right to include a few questions of your own on the evaluation form. If over 50% of your students also agree with statements like "The instructor doesn't actually exist" and "The instructor pistol whips students who mildly annoy her during class sessions", maybe the evals can be thrown out. 
Seriously, student evaluation - and administrative abuse of the same, which almost seems to go hand in hand with them - is a peculiar disease of (as chance would have it) U.S. origin which is increasingly hard to escape from anywhere on the globe, and even countries in Europe that had resisted them for a long time are succumbing. I'd be very interested to know the history of how student evals came to be implemented in South Korea, where the idea of attacking your professors on a piece of paper probably would have been thought pretty shocking just a few decades ago. Why do I get the feeling that such a history would have the phrase "corrupt administrators who have never actually taught" somewhere in it?
Anyway, hang in there, naturegirl. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Last edited by languistic on Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Renewal is based on student evals?! |
|
|
| anamika wrote: |
| If your renewal is based on evals, maybe you could request the right to include a few questions of your own on the evaluation form. If over 50% of your students also agree with statements like "The instructor doesn't actually exist" and "The instructor pistol whips students who mildly annoy her during class sessions", maybe the evals can be thrown out. . |
Hm, THat's a good idea! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toonchoon
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
I just feel like the laughing white monkeys are what students want. |
pretty much true. we're supposed to make the class "fun" for them, and supposed to make them laugh - even at the uni level. I've been somewhat successful at that. Had my English majors rolling on the floor yesterday, while making fun of the way Kiwis speak English. Of course, I made sure they knew I was joking - don't want admin coming after me.
One thing I realize is that when I make the class "fun" and/or "funny", they WILL NOT get back into serious mode and do what I ask them to. This makes me just want to keep it serious, which is not fun for them or me. For instance, after all the joking yesterday, I asked them to work on an exercise in the book. About 1/3 of the students did it, and the other two thirds wrote NO notes and did not discuss the topic. I actually told one that class participation is 25% of the grade, and that I don't see anything on his paper, and he started to complain to me!!!! Eh... actually, he's one that I will have to talk to on an individual basis.
What also irks me is that "attractive" girls and some seniors think they will get an automatic A, even if they do not participate in class. Some of them are in for a big, big surprise on Dec. 27th.
as far as evals go, I got really good evals from the students (avg. 90%) which is much higher than the dept. average, and this was from all the students from 5 classes. Hope I can keep that going!  My contract does state that if the score is less than 60% or so, I would not be renewed. I already accepted their offer to renew, so I'm OK, I guess. I hope. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, it's a pretty nauseating chain of events, but that's how it is here. It is not only the universities, either. No matter how it is dressed up here, we are largely viewed as "fun."
Nevermind the fact that at universities they expect us to teach and grade, but then when you do just that the students seek revenge on their evaluations. The administration then effectively gives them the greater power by using their evaluations as a basis to discipline or dismiss.
However, the validity of student evaluations are questionable everywhere. The argument that they don't know their grades until after the evaluation is also not valid for me, because I am grading their midterms and papers BEFORE the end of the term, and I share their grades and feedback with them.
Of course, I can flip into survival mode like so many ESL instructors are forced to do, by prioritizing my longevity here over trying to actually teach them something, but I firmly believe that the basis of midterms and other assignments should be to let the student know what they need to study/learn and what they need to improve. My weakness, of course. 
Anyway, welcome to Asia. Where everyone has face except for the foreigner.
*edit: If I was to separate their papers into two piles, one that was better to marginally better than the next, and then blindly give As and Bs to each pile without much thought or feedback, I would probably be a much more successful instructor as far as the ratings go. It's like prime time television! And, of course, it is stupid of me to actually tell them their score and how they do on their midterms, nevermind that the feedback could help them correct common speaking errors and prepare for the final - or cherish the thought - their English?!?
Aaaargh! Anyway, just know that you are not the only one affected/frustrated by this. I know how to play the game, but I don't know if I want to become the indentured servant of undergraduate students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
i can see where student evals play a part in the renewal decision even at the univ level heck as a student we got to eval our profs 25 years ago but i know with 99.99% certainty that it wasnt the sole criteria for their renewal like it is here. i bet its the same for the korean profs.
here at least my univ its 90% based on the student evals. heck i've been told i cant flunk graduating students (but thats for another thread) so they have free reign to act like idiots in my class and they know they will graduate and can cost me my job if i want to crack down on them
bottom line is even at the univ its all about making english "fun" and keeping the students happy and paying tuition instead of them actually learning something but again thats for another discussion |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
