Korean Job Discussion Forums

[humanuspneumos]

These days there's no shortage of teachers who'll shoot the whole ROK job market in the foot by saying something like:

"Just because we all have white skin doesn't mean we have to band together."

I'm not sure whether these people are just anti-social by nature, cowards, or brown-nosers at heart wanting to be singled-out as heros.

Anyway- here's the game or call it a cycle if you will:

A. Teacher has contract violations.
B. Another teacher says- "That's your problem not mine!"
C. Master grins from ear-to-ear that "B" teacher is his/her friend.
D. "B" teacher grins from ear to ear that master loves him/her.
E. Master and "B" teacher shun and sometimes abuse "A" teacher because "A" teacher has become a bad water-boy.
F. "A" teacher finally goes (finished or quit). Time rolls on and "B" teacher- lo and behold- suprise of all surprises- ends up in the same boat that "A" teacher was in and feels all the same emotions/reacts in many of the same ways as "A" teacher.

History books witness to this sickening scenario when we read about how "A" country wrongly attacks "B" country and folk in "B" country- to save their own skin- become police/authority for "A" country and abuse their own.

ROK offices often function on this point being counted on by the master in charge- divide and conquer. "I'll smile at you until you demand your rights. Then I'll cry on some other teacher's shoulder about how bad you are for wanting what's in your contract. Empathetic/pathetic teacher will jump in to save the day- that is until it happens to him/her."

Sadly, I see no hope of many "well meaning" teachers finally realizing that if "A" teacher got his/her contract broken and others before- it can easily follow the same abuse will happen to them later. So comes the logic of banding together.

No- when we came to Korea we weren't signing-up for some club. When we get to the ROK we should quickly realize that if others are getting abused it's only a matter of time before it's our turn- a club then comes in handy.

[rapier]

humanuspneumos: interesting concept, I've thought about it at length sometimes too..
My feelings are that i'm not about to band together with all other waeguks just because we speak the same language and are white. I have more in common with many koreans than i do with other foreigners. I want to see people as individuals..and rewarded on their merits..

I resent the idea of being railroaded into decisions dictated by some "waeguk labor union". For example: if I think that I've done a good teaching job, am appreciated by my boss, loved by the kids, I'm not then about to stand with wehgook solidarity to protect some drunken slack ass foreign bingo player from getting shafted by the wonjangnim.
In my exp., the "adjitators" pushing for a united front against the Korean management are often losers using the other foreigners to support their own agenda.

I want to avoid the "us vs. them mentality". But I see how sometimes its pretty hard to avoid...
Hmm. Undecided.... depends on the situation...I 've been mulling over the idea of getting all the co-teachers (Koreans included) to band together to have our pain of a supervisor removed...It would basically involve everyone threatening to quit, unless she goes...
But of course not everyone is prepared to put their own ass on the line. Some newbies have just arrived and want to save more before pulling any stunts; some teachers are nearing the end of their contracts and don't want to do anything to threaten their imminent severence bonuses: everyones different...

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Homer]

HP,

Interesting idea.

However what would prevent this "union" becoming as useless as many unions have?

Also, is your whole argument based on "we are waeguks so lets band togheter"?
If so that doesn't fly. Rapier made an excellent point when he said that he has more in common with many korean friends then he does with many other waeguks.

Being white does not mean we all should get togheter or get along...

Urban also made a good point: you can protect yourself quite well if you are mature enough to do so.

Finally, considering the temporary-short-term status of most teachers here HP, (1-2 years) who would want to pay union dues?

[TheUrbanMyth]

In fact there was an union of sorts, about a year ago or so The leader used to post messages on the old board and try to encourage people to join. They haven't been around since. Guess they found out the hard way that most teachers here are just here for a year or two. This brings me to my second point. Why would people stick out their neck for someone who they've never met before, especially if they are only here for a year or two?

Plus some foreigners are downright unsavoury characters. Remember that fellow who got caught with drugs and "ratted out" his "friends"? Would you want someone like that "supporting" you in the workplace? Far better to make and keep Korean friends. Not only are they more helpful in sorting out legal issues, but they stay here. They are not likely to run back to the West after a year or so. So you have a better chance of developing a stable LASTING friendship.

[humanuspneumos]

Actually- my post failed in what I meant- band together in the office (as much as possible). Not anything bigger than the office-micro-cosm. Here's how I see it:


Yes- there are always people looking for the "free ride" who benefit from every institution/act under the sun that secures justice. However, the one's who are faithful benefit in numbers movements- we have seen that again and again. There are only three or four directions this can go in-office:


* Be the only one to complain about contractual issues. It usually follows that the owner will then label you- complainer and ... And TUM- you're barking up the wrong tree if you assume I haven't fought battles- and those alone. It's the brown-noser foreigners who ought to be ____ed in the ___s that made it more difficult to reason with the owner- the "devil's advocate whispering" in his ear at the same time. Those folk are far-far worse than the "lazy" teacher.

* Call in your Korean friends- done that and really- it's often not fair to drag them into work situations (the owner especially blows when outside parties are let-in on "family secrets").

* Get the Korean staff to translate/communicate. As someone mentioned- they're not particularily interested in long battles (perhaps why they do the "surprise- I'm leaving today" thing)

* Band together as foreigners to the degree the owner doesn't know if-one-if-all will walk. Yes- there are people who don't tow the rope. But- in the same deal people who did pull their weight are benefitting by "group" complaints over any contractual infractions.

The point for those who love to toss out "sissy" comments is that there is power in numbers (even the lazy sack of potatoes becomes one more number) and it's only a matter of time before another teacher gets burnt if everyone just lets it slide- even Mr./Mrs. Brown-noser.

[Homer]

HP...why turn this into a bash thread?

Can you not debate like an adult?

No one called you a whiner or a "sissy".

[humanuspneumos]

I'm going to assume you didn't read all the posts in this thread:


I would have to say that the people who band together are cowards. What's wrong HP? Can't take on the big bad hakwon director by yourself?


Anyway- the only persons bashed are brown-nosers who short-circuit attempts when teachers do stand alone by denying that teacher has a right to demand what's in the contract. Now there's the sissy- wanting massers approval. "Wow- that guy/gal really has a screw loose for wanting what's in the contract. IIIIIIIIIII wouldn't ask."

Been there heard it.


Really- if you have people like that in your office do you think that increases chances of getting the bare minimum- what your contract states? Really?

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Juggertha]

I'm more worried about working with a drunk than a brown noser. At least with the later I know I won't have to cover their shifts.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[humanuspneumos]

If health care systems, life-insurance-agencies, and taxation agencies passing out cash to roads, hospitals, schools ... all put their service/mission on hold because there are bad people- there would be none of the above. As it stands- the "good" and the "bad" all pool their money/resources into one place so that all might benefit without prejudice.

Some people always get their sox in a knott because some "bad" person might be included in a "numbers" benefit. Then it turns into tattle-tale chaos.


The bottom line: more than one is more often than not more potent.

Also- don't forget- even the "bad" teacher has a right to have the contract upheld until he/she is fired for being bad. My experience is that bad teacher's attitude started getting bad after a number of "surprises" that things weren't as they were promised.

[crazylemongirl]

I don't band with people just because they are 'the workers.' I'm not going to stick my neck out for anyone who has been lazy/incomptent just because he is a fellow worker.

[humanuspneumos]

An actuary does the job of statistics. He figures out the rate of mortalities and such so that the insurance industry and others like it can survive and even make a buck.

I admit that I'm a pseudo-actuary in that I predict that the mortality (figuratively) of teachers getting screwed is much, much higher when they go it alone. I never thought about it until now- but most of us here at Dave's make contributions to various services that benefit us- even though those part of the same contribution group are rapists, murderers, thieves, and the such. Yet- all benefit from the pooling idea.


To a certain degree- by pooling efforts together and ignoring the jerk or sack-of-potatoes called a "teacher" - and banding together over issues of contracts, vacations, and pay- the potato does actually have some value even though he/she is a potato.


Perhaps a much greater task than getting directors to keep their word is getting staff members- at very least- to be unified at the lowest common denominator. I suppose, as I step back both look impossible- call me cynical if you will.

[Mr. Pink]

You seem to be beating a dead horse. No one is going to "band together".

Maybe you haven't been in Korea long enough to see all the crap that goes on at hakwons. I'd say it isn't always the directors fault either. Would you stick you neck out for a guy you barely know, just because he works with you? You've been there 6mths, so far, so good, 6mths left. Buddy gets off the plane and starts whining and complaining about xxx and xxx not being honored.

What are you honestly going to do? I wouldn't "band together" and run the risk of screwing myself over for someone I don't know.

The only times people "band together" is when EVERYONE isn't getting paid or some other very common problem that effects EVERYONE.

For single employee to employer problems: do as urbanmyth pointed out: TALK TO YOUR DIRECTOR.

I mean are you chained to your job? Quit if it is that horrible for YOU!