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this article made me so angry and sad at the same time....
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clyde



Joined: 09 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer you make a good point. Let me revise, solid stable partnerships of 2 people are required for children, be they gay, married or whatever. Family of whatever kind is crucial for a child, and I am sorry but a young disadvantaged female raising children on her own severely impedes the chances of those children leading happy lives.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: this article made me so angry and sad at the same time.. Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
hondaicivic wrote:

Mad Sad ..........it's 2010 for godsake! NOT 17th CENTURY CHOSUN DYNASTY!


How long ago would this type of thinking been common in the West?


In America 1940's rule rather than exception

1950's common.

1960's less common.

1970's exception not the rule.

And you know this how? Personal experience?

Yea, it was shameful, but it didn't get you kicked out of your family, except in extreme cases. They sent you away to an aunt's or cousin's, you had the baby and if no marriage had happened by then put it up for adoption. Abortion was not the first option; it was both illegal and dangerous.

The stigma of being an out-of-wedlock mother was nowhere near as onerous.
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wiganer



Joined: 13 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: this article made me so angry and sad at the same time.. Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:

I couldn't agree more with your observations. In the UK having a child out of wedlock or raising a child as a single mother was taboo until only several decades ago. Korea is already opening up significantly over many social issues. Look at its reformed approach to HIV/AIDs and animal welfare foe example. It won't be long before Korea 'catches up' with the west.


We aren't talking all that long ago that living together was seen as a no-no in the UK, never mind having a child out of wedlock - add to it if the father was from a different race - as the 1980 madness hit 'embarassment' attested to.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redaxe wrote:
Smee wrote:
Yeah, because when it comes to single motherhood and intact families, the US really got it right. *cough*


Yeah, because it's fair to compare the US, which has six times the population, many times the ethnic/cultural/racial diversity, and a legacy of several hundred years of slavery, racial segregation, and resulting conditions of urban poverty, to Korea.

Several hundred years of slavery compared to Korea's thousand and more years, but hey, who's counting?
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: this article made me so angry and sad at the same time.. Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
brier wrote:
Kimchifart wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
hondaicivic wrote:

Mad Sad ..........it's 2010 for godsake! NOT 17th CENTURY CHOSUN DYNASTY!


How long ago would this type of thinking been common in the West?


The attitude is about 100-50 years old I would say.

Driving standards: 17th century Chosun.


Older. about 150 years or so for the U.S.A at least. Scarlet B is a better marker though CC.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure.
T-J wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
hondaicivic wrote:

Mad Sad ..........it's 2010 for godsake! NOT 17th CENTURY CHOSUN DYNASTY!


How long ago would this type of thinking been common in the West?


In America 1940's rule rather than exception

1950's common.

1960's less common.

1970's exception not the rule.


Yeah, that sounds closer to my thoughts. My grandmother was a single mother (with my mother), and she faced a whole lot of similar things in the 50's in Canada. So much so, we could never ask her about it later in life.
This isn't as far back in western history as people would like to imagine.

Similar--how? She was banished from her family? Apparently not. You guys are way off.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clyde wrote:
What is so wrong about having strong families? Why has it become so taboo to believe that family should play a central role in our lives, rather than the government. Our little welfare state back home has done more harm than good in my opinion. Making poor choices that shame and dishonour your family are choices that you will suffer from and have to live with. Shaming and dishonouring your fellow taxpayer just feels good to most people. We as a society have lost a sense of accountability, so no single moms should not be encouraged.

Who is arguing against strong families? Who is asserting the government should replace the family? Who feels good about shaming their fellow taxpayer? Where are all these strawmen you've set up?
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATM SPIDERTAO wrote:
there SHOULD be social pressure for children being born into married families.

i love south korea

not that i think abortion or adoption is the greatest option. these people should be learning about contraception.

kids of single mothers who were thrown away AFTER having a kid should grow up feeling ashamed so they don't repeat the mistakes of their parent

Tough to figure out that last sentence, but you appear to be saying that children whose mothers have abandoned them deserve to feel ashamed. If so, the only shame here belongs all to you.
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methdxman



Joined: 14 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boo-f'in hoo people judged you for getting knocked up. Happens everywhere.

This is actually a very heartwarming story. Unwed mothers who don't want their babies, giving them up for adoption. This is an awesome story. Give up your baby if you don't want it, otherwise it's going to either end up being a rapist, prostitute, murderer, thief, or any other general thorn in society because you neglect it and/or abuse it. The baby will be much happier and better off in life if he's adopted by a couple who actually wants children.

It does suck for the women because they have to deal with this on their own, but it's MUCH MUCH better for society and the babies. So I guess we have to see where we can equalize it a bit for the women. But so far, babies and society better off.

Western society needs to promote adoption more. Yeah I'm all for supporting single women who have been abandoned by their dumbass boyfriends who knocked them up. But don't encourage it. Support them by telling them to put up their kid for adoption. Just "loving" your kid doesn't give him a happy life.

Korea's got it half right. Don't drag her to the abortion clinic, tell her to send that kid for adoption.
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Kimchifart



Joined: 15 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalin84 wrote:
hondaicivic wrote:
Being asian-american, I can't help but feel embarrassed by reading this.


Don't. You're not your race or ethnic group. You're you.


That's beautiful. I think an angel just vomited on my unicorn.
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Kimchifart



Joined: 15 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clyde wrote:
Ok here is my perspective. I believe that the Korean system is better than the Western in this regard. You should not have kids if you aren't married. My youth was more of a smoldering ruin than than a childhood. My parents married multiple times and life was generally really horrible for me. I am glad that I was not aborted, but every time a see a nice Mom, Dad and baby playing in the park together it feels as if the entire world is playing a joke on me. We should encourage people to have kids when they are married because children need a mom and a dad. Shit Happens, women become pregnant accidentally that's life. Adoption should be strenuously promoted, overseas or otherwise. I also resent the fact that in countries such as Canada it has become a career having children. Some women get pregnant multiple times knowing that the more children they have, the more government money they will receive. Western culture has become so incredibly degenerate that it amazes me sometimes. What is so wrong about having strong families? Why has it become so taboo to believe that family should play a central role in our lives, rather than the government. Our little welfare state back home has done more harm than good in my opinion. Making poor choices that shame and dishonour your family are choices that you will suffer from and have to live with. Shaming and dishonouring your fellow taxpayer just feels good to most people. We as a society have lost a sense of accountability, so no single moms should not be encouraged.


Are you aware of the divorce rates here?
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Kimchifart



Joined: 15 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: this article made me so angry and sad at the same time.. Reply with quote

atwood wrote:
T-J wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
hondaicivic wrote:

Mad Sad ..........it's 2010 for godsake! NOT 17th CENTURY CHOSUN DYNASTY!


How long ago would this type of thinking been common in the West?


In America 1940's rule rather than exception

1950's common.

1960's less common.

1970's exception not the rule.

And you know this how? Personal experience?

Yea, it was shameful, but it didn't get you kicked out of your family, except in extreme cases. They sent you away to an aunt's or cousin's, you had the baby and if no marriage had happened by then put it up for adoption. Abortion was not the first option; it was both illegal and dangerous.

The stigma of being an out-of-wedlock mother was nowhere near as onerous.


Actually there were cases in the UK of women who had kids out of deadlock being put into mental asylums against their will and having their kids taken off 'em.

Apologies for the crap source, but I can't be bothered trawling for the proper stuff. Needless to say this is generally quite well known in the UK, and there have been TV documentaries about it etc.
[url]
http://www.uktrackers.co.uk/ti_fact_5.htm[/url]
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATM SPIDERTAO wrote:
there SHOULD be social pressure for children being born into married families.

i love south korea

not that i think abortion or adoption is the greatest option. these people should be learning about contraception.

kids of single mothers who were thrown away AFTER having a kid should grow up feeling ashamed so they don't repeat the mistakes of their parent



I have to agree with the first sentence. Many kids that grow up without two parents and a loving, nuturing family do suffer emotional trauma that manifests into all kinds of poo later in life. OTOH, there are probably more dysfunctional families that raise kids who have even worse problems than the aforementioned.
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Carla



Joined: 21 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are never as simple as it seems. Korea's birthrate is dropping. One reason (not the only reason) is because women are getting to the point they would rather be childless than be married. I've meet many Korean women from the age of 25~30ish who don't plan on marrying. Some plan on eventually having or adopting children.

I think people need to focus more on protecting the children that are around. For all the people saying how great Korea's two parent families are and how crappy single parent families are, can you explain why Korea has one of the highest child rape rates in the world (9 times higher than Germany) and has the highest suicide rate of the developed countries.

I hate to tell people, it doesn't matter if you have one parent, two parents, gay parents, etc. All that matters is that the people around you are looking out for you and protecting you. You have had too many women afraid to be divorced look the other way and go into deep denial when things were happening to their daughters.

A horrible parent is a horrible parent. Don't get me wrong, I am pro-choice, and I have met some people who I really believe should have had abortions. But I've met MARRIED COUPLES who should have had abortions too. Come on, there's a reason we say slutty girls have "daddy issues."

I am a single mother, and my son is completely well adjusted. He has lots of friends, he gets along great with other kids, he is everybody's friend. He is healthy and happy. He is actually better than most kids from two-parents households I have seen.

Now, just because my son is great, I am not saying single mothers are the way to go either. I am saying GOOD PARENTS ARE GOOD PARENTS, AND BAD PARENTS ARE BAD PARENTS.







Slightly unrelated, but an interesting side note. A study has revealed that children of lesbian couples generally do better in life than other kids. Better socially, better in school, and less likely to get in trouble. Maybe there is a difference?
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Only about a quarter of South Koreans are willing to have a close relationship with an unwed mother as a coworker or neighbor, according to a recent survey by the government-financed Korean Women�s Development Institute."

That's pretty f*cked up. One of the things I love about Korea is that there's more openness about sex than in the U.S. (at least the fact that it happens premaritally). With that in mind, it seems pretty silly that women are ostracized for having functional organs.
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misher



Joined: 14 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
can you explain why Korea has one of the highest child rape rates in the world (9 times higher than Germany)


Carla,

I would just like to let you know that certain posters here (no names mentioned) will be howling in minutes about your outrageous claim and the fact that you didn't post any links to back it up.

I for one could believe it however...
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