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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
That link doesn't support your claim. Your original claim was " can you explain why Korea has one of the highest child rape rates in the WORLD."
(Capitals are mine)
That article lists FIVE countries. A better claim would be that Korea has the highest rate of sexual crimes against minors of the five countries listed in the article. Nowhere does it say anything about the world.
You also claimed that Korea has the highest rate of suicide in developed countries. Japan beats out Korea for the top rate of suicide based on research by the WHO.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/country_reports/en/index.html In every year the two countries are compared Japan has a higher rate than Korea with the exception of 2005.
I do however agree with your premise that two parent homes do not guarantee well-adjusted families. |
I should have been more specific. I'm not talking about African countries, southeast Asian countries. I'm talking about child rape in more developed countries. I haven't found one with a higher rate then Korea.
As for the suicide rate.
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/158160.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/04/17/VI2010041703497.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2010/03/south-korean-suicide-rate-higheset-in.html
All these articles say Korea has the highest suicide rate as of this year.
Also, you must remember that WHO is not perfect. If you look at a countries rates for swine flu, they do not match with WHO because WHO only reports those people who were actually tested. Once a person was tested and diagnosed, the people around them with the same symptoms were treated accordingly, but those cases were not counted by WHO. So if a parent was tested and diagnosed, then the other parent and children showed the same signs, they were treated, but not counted by WHO.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I do however agree with your premise that two parent homes do not guarantee well-adjusted families. |
Thank you, that is basically all I am trying to say. Two good parents are great, but not everyone can be so lucky.
Last edited by Carla on Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
[q
Now about child support, that is pretty non-exixtent in Korea from what I hear. . |
http://women.foreignpolicyblogs.com/tag/child-support/
According to this the law in South Korea states that married men must pay child support.
It also states that things are getting better for unwed women. They are organizing, advocating and getting a higher stipend from the government (although it's still not all that much). |
Some of my Korean friends said until recently, there was plenty of help for married families, but no help for single-parents, single-fathers or single-mothers. You are right, they are starting to help out.
Great article, very informative.
I know a few Korean women who are waiting to get into a steady government job before having/adopting kids because they know if they do anything now, they will probably lose their jobs just because they are single mothers.
| Quote: |
| However, the government checks your parents� income before assigning a stipend, even if you have no contact with your parents. |
Well, that part just sucks. |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of people think societies problems come from single parents. Where do these single parents come from. At one point, America was full of two-parent families. If two-parent families were perfect, then we would still have two-parent families. If two-parent families guaranteed well-adjusted kids, then everything would be roses, tulips, and butterscotch candy.
If Korea's two-parent families were perfect, then Korea wouldn't have a rise in unwed mothers now.
I heard someone say something one time, and the logic is similar. They said they supported gay marriage because then gay people would marry gay people, and they couldn't have gay babies. (Apparently he understood that "gayness" was a genetic thing, but he didn't understand the part that is was a development in the womb issue, and not something you could inherit.) Anyway, the flaw in his logic is that gay people don't make gay babies, straight people make gay babies too.
Just because something looks good on paper, doesn't mean it works in real life.
My sister has a traditional household. She takes care of the kids, he works. I am a single mom. Between us we have 4 kids. All of our children are great, smart, healthy, and happy. Not because the number of parents, but because all the people involved love and care for the children.
And once again, I'm not supporting single-parent families over two-parent families. I am definately pro-choice. Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, but if you are in a bad position, it is an option. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Carla"]
No they don't. The first one just says of 2009. The second one I can't watch right now as my computer doesn't like videos.
The third one agrees with me. Click on the link then scroll down to the link below that talks about suicide in OECD countries. You will see that Japan comes first. We are talking about developed countries as you yourself said.
The fourth is part of the third.
As for the child rape level it still doesn't matter. Even if we are only talking about developed nations there are still far more developed nations in the world than just those five.
I think Mr. b-class rambler made a good point about this when he pointed out that these issues are being presented in this way to earn support. We all know what happens to statistics when they are being used to support a political agenda. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Carla wrote: |
Things are never as simple as it seems. Korea's birthrate is dropping. One reason (not the only reason) is because women are getting to the point they would rather be childless than be married. I've meet many Korean women from the age of 25~30ish who don't plan on marrying. Some plan on eventually having or adopting children.
I think people need to focus more on protecting the children that are around. For all the people saying how great Korea's two parent families are and how crappy single parent families are, can you explain why Korea has one of the highest child rape rates in the world (9 times higher than Germany) and has the highest suicide rate of the developed countries.
I hate to tell people, it doesn't matter if you have one parent, two parents, gay parents, etc. All that matters is that the people around you are looking out for you and protecting you. You have had too many women afraid to be divorced look the other way and go into deep denial when things were happening to their daughters.
A horrible parent is a horrible parent. Don't get me wrong, I am pro-choice, and I have met some people who I really believe should have had abortions. But I've met MARRIED COUPLES who should have had abortions too. Come on, there's a reason we say slutty girls have "daddy issues."
I am a single mother, and my son is completely well adjusted. He has lots of friends, he gets along great with other kids, he is everybody's friend. He is healthy and happy. He is actually better than most kids from two-parents households I have seen.
Now, just because my son is great, I am not saying single mothers are the way to go either. I am saying GOOD PARENTS ARE GOOD PARENTS, AND BAD PARENTS ARE BAD PARENTS.
Slightly unrelated, but an interesting side note. A study has revealed that children of lesbian couples generally do better in life than other kids. Better socially, better in school, and less likely to get in trouble. Maybe there is a difference? |
Great statement. Tragic how many girls got knocked up back home where i thought "she NEEDS to get an abortion or give it away", and sure enough, 2-5 years later, that child is already really f-----d up.
As for women not wanting to get married here, I've heard some interesting stories about that. Friend's ex-girlfriend was super anti-marriage until she visited Europe. Seeing many happily married couples there, she had renewed hope for a possible happy marriage herself. She said she didn't see any happy marriages in Korea. I know a couple Korean girls who only date foreigners because they treat them better. I guess Korean guys still have some of that old school Korea mentality.
Fortunately, Confucianism is dying; maybe these women will feel more willing to get married when they're treated as equals. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Carla wrote: |
Things are never as simple as it seems. Korea's birthrate is dropping. One reason (not the only reason) is because women are getting to the point they would rather be childless than be married. I've meet many Korean women from the age of 25~30ish who don't plan on marrying. Some plan on eventually having or adopting children.
I think people need to focus more on protecting the children that are around. For all the people saying how great Korea's two parent families are and how crappy single parent families are, can you explain why Korea has one of the highest child rape rates in the world (9 times higher than Germany) and has the highest suicide rate of the developed countries.
I hate to tell people, it doesn't matter if you have one parent, two parents, gay parents, etc. All that matters is that the people around you are looking out for you and protecting you. You have had too many women afraid to be divorced look the other way and go into deep denial when things were happening to their daughters.
A horrible parent is a horrible parent. Don't get me wrong, I am pro-choice, and I have met some people who I really believe should have had abortions. But I've met MARRIED COUPLES who should have had abortions too. Come on, there's a reason we say slutty girls have "daddy issues."
I am a single mother, and my son is completely well adjusted. He has lots of friends, he gets along great with other kids, he is everybody's friend. He is healthy and happy. He is actually better than most kids from two-parents households I have seen.
Now, just because my son is great, I am not saying single mothers are the way to go either. I am saying GOOD PARENTS ARE GOOD PARENTS, AND BAD PARENTS ARE BAD PARENTS.
Slightly unrelated, but an interesting side note. A study has revealed that children of lesbian couples generally do better in life than other kids. Better socially, better in school, and less likely to get in trouble. Maybe there is a difference? |
I agree with you that good parents are good and bad are bad. It doesn't matter if you're a single mother or married.
Yes, people should have less kids period, because they end up messing up most of them, which perpetuates societal problems. I do think that just by pure math a two parent family is the best as long as both parents are good. I don't think that you should totally dismiss the problem of single mothers just because a lot of marriages ruin children.
Single moms tend to come from chaotic pasts, yet they always claim that their children are happy. You'll never hear a single mom say, "Man, I've irrevocably messed up my children." Much props to single moms who really keep it together, but I think a lot of them bring a lot of chaos into the household, which in turn f's up their kids invariably.
This is not to excuse terrible marriages where an alcoholic dad beats mom every night and she refuses to end the marriage. Or dad rapes daughter, or is unfaithful to mom or mom is abusive or whatever. Lots of marriages ruin children as well.
I think to claim that your son is better than most kids from two-parent households is a bit myopic to be honest. Moms aren't unbiased in that respect.
I doubt that Korea has the highest rate of child sexual abuse. I think that distinction probably belongs to the U.S. judging by the percentage of women with emotional baggage and daddy issues. |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
I think to claim that your son is better than most kids from two-parent households is a bit myopic to be honest. Moms aren't unbiased in that respect.
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True, moms aren't unbiased. I've seen some people who thought their kids were the "bomb" and I kind of wondered who she was talking about. I did quantify the statement with kids I have seen. I have seen so many kids with trust issues, educational issues, starting fights, being bullied, anti-social, etc. Not even counting the fact that people are constantly telling me that my son is better than their own children, from what I have personally witnessed, my son is at the front of the pack.
| methdxman wrote: |
I doubt that Korea has the highest rate of child sexual abuse. I think that distinction probably belongs to the U.S. judging by the percentage of women with emotional baggage and daddy issues. |
Oh, the US is right up there, but not as high as Korea. And Korea even says that the unreported cases (due to family shame) far outnumber the reported cases, but I am sure most places are like that. |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
| Great statement. Tragic how many girls got knocked up back home where i thought "she NEEDS to get an abortion or give it away", and sure enough, 2-5 years later, that child is already really f-----d up. |
I actually heard someone say when they were pregnant with their second child, "This one I'm going to do a good job with." This is one of the ones I would have suggested a visit for her. Hey crazy lady, did you forget you already have a 4 year old, how about trying to fix some of that damage. He is only 4 years old and already chalked him up to a lost cause.
| akcrono wrote: |
As for women not wanting to get married here, I've heard some interesting stories about that. Friend's ex-girlfriend was super anti-marriage until she visited Europe. Seeing many happily married couples there, she had renewed hope for a possible happy marriage herself. She said she didn't see any happy marriages in Korea. I know a couple Korean girls who only date foreigners because they treat them better. I guess Korean guys still have some of that old school Korea mentality.
Fortunately, Confucianism is dying; maybe these women will feel more willing to get married when they're treated as equals. |
Ya, one of my Korean coworkers told me should wouldn't mind being married, but she doesn't want to be a "wife" here. I told her don't just give up. There are some really good guys out there. |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
| Carla wrote: |
No they don't. The first one just says of 2009. The second one I can't watch right now as my computer doesn't like videos.
The third one agrees with me. Click on the link then scroll down to the link below that talks about suicide in OECD countries. You will see that Japan comes first. We are talking about developed countries as you yourself said.
The fourth is part of the third.
As for the child rape level it still doesn't matter. Even if we are only talking about developed nations there are still far more developed nations in the world than just those five.
I think Mr. b-class rambler made a good point about this when he pointed out that these issues are being presented in this way to earn support. We all know what happens to statistics when they are being used to support a political agenda. |
Look, one wiki based on WHO says Japan, one wiki based on WHO says Koera. I'm not sure how the third one supports you.
| Quote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea
South Korea recently surpassed Japan in having the highest suicide rate among the 30 OECD countries.[1][2][3] Worldwide, only Guyana, Hungary, Slovenia, and countries of the former USSR have higher suicide rates than South Korea |
If you look at the other links, one says Japan is the highest, one says Korea is the highest. The only difference that I can tell is one also lists underdeveloped nations. How much stock can we put in those statistics if they change based on more countries listed? Like you said, people manipulate the data.
But, if it will make both of our lives easier, I will change my original statement to KOREAN AND JAPANESE two parent families. Either way you look at it, two parents families do not guarantee happy children. Just imagine that if you take the current conditions, then throw in the drug and alcohol problems (which are more likely coming soon than not) that the US has. I doubt that's going to lower the rates. |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
[q
Now about child support, that is pretty non-exixtent in Korea from what I hear. . |
http://women.foreignpolicyblogs.com/tag/child-support/
According to this the law in South Korea states that married men must pay child support.
It also states that things are getting better for unwed women. They are organizing, advocating and getting a higher stipend from the government (although it's still not all that much). |
Right and in that same article it states that because the man is paying support, his power over the child increases, in that he can take the child away from the mother.
"If the unwed mother has less ability in terms of finances than unwed father, she can�t defend herself to keep the child."
This goes back to my case in point. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
As for women not wanting to get married here, I've heard some interesting stories about that. Friend's ex-girlfriend was super anti-marriage until she visited Europe. Seeing many happily married couples there, she had renewed hope for a possible happy marriage herself. She said she didn't see any happy marriages in Korea. I know a couple Korean girls who only date foreigners because they treat them better. I guess Korean guys still have some of that old school Korea mentality.
Fortunately, Confucianism is dying; maybe these women will feel more willing to get married when they're treated as equals. |
Korean Christian culture (a sizable percentage here and a near 100% thing for Koreans in the States) has completely different attitudes in it.
I think a lot of NETs aren't exposed to this part of Korea and get a skewed perspective of Koreans as people. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="akcrono"]
| Carla wrote: |
Fortunately, Confucianism is dying; maybe these women will feel more willing to get married when they're treated as equals. |
maybe in seoul, where there is strength in numbers, but in the regions, i dont really see the change. Higher education is good for anyone, but still, all my boys still talk of finding ONE girl (as soon as they leave high school even) and staying with her (its silly I know, but theyre good boys). I mean, young couples get those couple rings. Theyre playing getting married before getting married! Confucianism is still quite strong here. Boys age and they want to be the pious son their parents are always talking about.
Girls dont want it, but unless they work, they dont really have alot of choice, as their ajumma parents badger them to death.
hmmmm |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
As for women not wanting to get married here, I've heard some interesting stories about that. Friend's ex-girlfriend was super anti-marriage until she visited Europe. Seeing many happily married couples there, she had renewed hope for a possible happy marriage herself. She said she didn't see any happy marriages in Korea. I know a couple Korean girls who only date foreigners because they treat them better. I guess Korean guys still have some of that old school Korea mentality.
Fortunately, Confucianism is dying; maybe these women will feel more willing to get married when they're treated as equals. |
Korean Christian culture (a sizable percentage here and a near 100% thing for Koreans in the States) has completely different attitudes in it.
I think a lot of NETs aren't exposed to this part of Korea and get a skewed perspective of Koreans as people. |
While I can't go as far as "completely different" since Christianity in Korea has strong Confucian elements, I think you're right that they're more forgiving and tolerant and that there is more respect for women.
Confucianism has devolved into, at best, situational ethics, while Christianity teaches a formal code of morality. IMO there's a world of difference. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:00 am Post subject: |
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I studied a bit of Korean Christianity. A bit. The Kchurches in the States are a different thing. But here, its largely a group to belong to. I remember reading an account of an old missionary (I believe) who said the best reason was the churches had the best supplies after the war, thus the explosion of Christianity. Also, the teachings that everyone is equal surely appeals to the people who didnt make it into Koreas higher ranks.. One of my students said that one pastor said "good boys go to church, bad boys dont." theres my answer right there! 
simple minded ness, but if it works for someone, it works. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:00 am Post subject: Re: this article made me so angry and sad at the same time.. |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Yeah, that sounds closer to my thoughts. My grandmother was a single mother (with my mother), and she faced a whole lot of similar things in the 50's in Canada. So much so, we could never ask her about it later in life.
This isn't as far back in western history as people would like to imagine. |
Similar--how? She was banished from her family? Apparently not. You guys are way off. |
Unable to get a job - check
Shamed in society - check
Settled for anyone who would accept another man's kid - check
F you to presume what my grandmother went through.
Hell, my mother in the 70's also struggled in society being a single mom.
I've given two (very) personal examples from my family to show that this type of thing was not all that long ago.
Perhaps you have a number of 60 year old examples of single mothers who were embrassed by all aspects of society. |
F you too. I presumed nothing, and your last statement refers to nothing I posted.
Struggle is far, far different from being kicked out of one's family, as happened to the mother in the article in the OP. That was my main point, as well as the knowledge that many families worked to protect unwed mothers from such censure by shipping them off for a while and that communities had homes for unwed mothers funded by local governments. They stood by them.
As for personal examples, no. I come from a boringly normal family for the most part. |
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