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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: South Korea Roars again from Time Magazine |
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perhaps a bit overly fawning, but after all the writer's wife is Korean and this was surely written to coincide with the G20 meeting in Seoul.
however, the basic points the author makes I think are quite valid.
Korea may not be changing fast enough for some foreigners here, but it definitely has changed, and is continually changing, or evolving.
it will never become "Western", as Korea's evolution will surely stay uniquely "Korean" as it should, but it will feel less and less like living or staying on Mars for westerners living and working here. (actually that should be amended to f"or anyone that's not East Asian")
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2029399-1,00.html |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| A fairly accurate article in many respects. In fact, it touvhes on many of the issues I raised in a thread a couple of pages back. Sure, Korea isn't perfect, but its economy is very healthy - as the article points out, and its infrastructure is almost second to none. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| A fairly accurate article in many respects. In fact, it touvhes on many of the issues I raised in a thread a couple of pages back. Sure, Korea isn't perfect, but its economy is very healthy - as the article points out, and its infrastructure is almost second to none. |
They do need to get inter-city buses with bathrooms though. It's one thing if there is no traffic and you can make all your scheduled rest stops in a decent time but if that normal 3 hour trip turns into a 9 hour nightmare.. well I'd rather not be hitting the bush.
For a country that puts public restrooms everywhere there is one place they need them for when "you really need to go" |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| A fairly accurate article in many respects. In fact, it touvhes on many of the issues I raised in a thread a couple of pages back. Sure, Korea isn't perfect, but its economy is very healthy - as the article points out, and its infrastructure is almost second to none. |
They do need to get inter-city buses with bathrooms though. It's one thing if there is no traffic and you can make all your scheduled rest stops in a decent time but if that normal 3 hour trip turns into a 9 hour nightmare.. well I'd rather not be hitting the bush.
For a country that puts public restrooms everywhere there is one place they need them for when "you really need to go" |
That's what the 40 of Hite I was swigging in the back is for.
Unfortunately they don't offer a wide-mouth bottle so you have to be pinpoint with you accuracy. |
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4 months left
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: |
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The Miracle Is Over. Now What?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704791004575519703277433756.html#printMode
WSJ Skeptical of 'Korean Miracle'
The Wall Street Journal on Monday questioned the momentum of Korea's export-driven economic growth. "The economic strategy that worked so well for so long has run its course," the paper said. "As it welcomes the leaders of the 20 richest nations this week, [South] Korea is coming to grips with an uncomfortable truth: The stunningly successful economic strategy that put it in position to host such a meeting is nearing the end of its useful life. And replacing it won't be easy."
The daily noted Korea's success in turning its economy around from poverty in the 1960s through the efficient allocation of investments during authoritarian military governments. But it added Korea needs to undergo fundamental changes in terms of politics, the economy, culture and other areas.
Korea is already showing clear signs of slowing growth. Over the last 15 years, its potential growth has weakened more than that of any advanced country and stands at around 4 percent now. The government�s first priority should be to stop meddling in microeconomic matters, the paper advised.
It reported that Seoul still regulates new entrants into the country's beer market and has a say over wages at the Korea Exchange. It argues that the country's Confucian-style, top-down and male-oriented culture that excludes women or immigrants also needs to change.
Korea's average annual salary for women is US$16,931, around half of what men make ($32,668) and the largest gap among advanced countries.
The paper said competition has already started over the 2012 presidential bid and mentioned former Grand National Party leader Park Geun-hye, Gyeonggi Province Governor Kim Moon-soo and Democratic Party chief Sohn Hak-kyu as the main contenders. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| 4 months left wrote: |
Korea's average annual salary for women is US$16,931, around half of what men make ($32,668) and the largest gap among advanced countries.
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Yeah that glass ceiling is very very low in Korea.
I work for a major Korean "chaebol" company and I just saw a gender breakdown of our staff. We have about 1,500 employees and only around 200 of them are women! |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| 4 months left wrote: |
Korea's average annual salary for women is US$16,931, around half of what men make ($32,668) and the largest gap among advanced countries.
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Yeah that glass ceiling is very very low in Korea.
I work for a major Korean "chaebol" company and I just saw a gender breakdown of our staff. We have about 1,500 employees and only around 200 of them are women! |
That's because Korea is one of the few countries where you can still get by on a 1 person income. Once you have your jeonse, which you can get at a much younger age than finishing your mortgage in north america, your cost of living plummets.
A lot of women retire around 30, or take a long time off to have their children. When they return to work, they often return only at a part time job.
If this stat is like any of these kinds of stats that are often used in the west, they're comparing yogurt cart women with CEOs. In short, utterly meaningless. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| 4 months left wrote: |
Korea's average annual salary for women is US$16,931, around half of what men make ($32,668) and the largest gap among advanced countries.
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Yeah that glass ceiling is very very low in Korea.
I work for a major Korean "chaebol" company and I just saw a gender breakdown of our staff. We have about 1,500 employees and only around 200 of them are women! |
That's because Korea is one of the few countries where you can still get by on a 1 person income. Once you have your jeonse, which you can get at a much younger age than finishing your mortgage in north america, your cost of living plummets.
A lot of women retire around 30, or take a long time off to have their children. When they return to work, they often return only at a part time job.
If this stat is like any of these kinds of stats that are often used in the west, they're comparing yogurt cart women with CEOs. In short, utterly meaningless. |
North Americans could pay their mortgages off quickly too, if they lived in Korean-sized apartments!
Is it that you can get by on a single income per household in Korea, or is it that you have to get by on a single income per household in Korea?
They give a statistic right before the income one: "Today, only 53% of Korean women work, below the 57% average of all developed countries, a problem that will loom even larger when the labor force starts to contract later in the decade."
Korean women make less money than men because fewer of them work. But fewer of them work because their earning potential is much lower than men's. And a lot of married women can't work precisely because their husbands are forced to work such long hours. It's a bit of a catch-22.
And the article doesn't mention this but an inordinately large percentage of the jobs available to Korean women involve offering sexual services. I wonder how many of those are counted in the statistic. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
North Americans could pay their mortgages off quickly too, if they lived in Korean-sized apartments!
Is it that you can get by on a single income per household in Korea, or is it that you have to get by on a single income per household in Korea?
They give a statistic right before the income one: "Today, only 53% of Korean women work, below the 57% average of all developed countries, a problem that will loom even larger when the labor force starts to contract later in the decade."
Korean women make less money than men because fewer of them work. But fewer of them work because their earning potential is much lower than men's. And a lot of married women can't work precisely because their husbands are forced to work such long hours. It's a bit of a catch-22.
And the article doesn't mention this but an inordinately large percentage of the jobs available to Korean women involve offering sexual services. I wonder how many of those are counted in the statistic. |
If women want it, they can get it. I know a woman who is only a couple levels off president of a major fashion group in Korea that is part of a large conglomerate and she expects to get it. But she didn't quit working. She kept going the whole time along and she's ambitious.
Even if the glass ceiling were only a couple levels below president, how many people, men or women are actually working in those jobs?
Not that many.
For the majority of men they can't actually work that high either.
It doesn't chance the fact that they're likely not comparing like jobs to like jobs or situations when they make these statistics. Women I know who have kept working right along, say who haven't had a baby, are doing quite well for themselves and are in managerial roles.
and you can get by on 1 income quite easily in Korea once you have a jeonse.
The biggest expense for most families is shelter. Remove it and what are you paying each month? Utilities? food? It's more when you've got a kid, but it doesn't always have to be crazy. |
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cragesmure
Joined: 23 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Yeah just ask any Korean what they think about a woman being the main earner in a family, with the man staying home and looking after the kids.
I agree with the need for bathrooms on buses though. There has been times when I'd give my left one for that luxury. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 4 months left wrote: |
The Miracle Is Over. Now What?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704791004575519703277433756.html#printMode
WSJ Skeptical of 'Korean Miracle'
The Wall Street Journal on Monday questioned the momentum of Korea's export-driven economic growth. "The economic strategy that worked so well for so long has run its course," the paper said. "As it welcomes the leaders of the 20 richest nations this week, [South] Korea is coming to grips with an uncomfortable truth: The stunningly successful economic strategy that put it in position to host such a meeting is nearing the end of its useful life. And replacing it won't be easy."
The daily noted Korea's success in turning its economy around from poverty in the 1960s through the efficient allocation of investments during authoritarian military governments. But it added Korea needs to undergo fundamental changes in terms of politics, the economy, culture and other areas.
Korea is already showing clear signs of slowing growth. Over the last 15 years, its potential growth has weakened more than that of any advanced country and stands at around 4 percent now. The government�s first priority should be to stop meddling in microeconomic matters, the paper advised.
It reported that Seoul still regulates new entrants into the country's beer market and has a say over wages at the Korea Exchange. It argues that the country's Confucian-style, top-down and male-oriented culture that excludes women or immigrants also needs to change.
Korea's average annual salary for women is US$16,931, around half of what men make ($32,668) and the largest gap among advanced countries.
The paper said competition has already started over the 2012 presidential bid and mentioned former Grand National Party leader Park Geun-hye, Gyeonggi Province Governor Kim Moon-soo and Democratic Party chief Sohn Hak-kyu as the main contenders. |
Aren't these the same clowns who promoted a bunch of policies that led to the current economic crisis? |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mostly these articles are written by Koreans or people of Korean ancestry. While some points are true, these are not traits only Korea has, but most Asian countries (save for Japan and maybe HK and Singapore). Everytime I see a CNN article about Japan vs China, I can almost hear the teeth nashing together outside 
I do say Korea hasnt had the best of leadership, but they benefit from a darn good infrastructure and a middle aged work force that is driven by their sense of duty (instilled by Bak Chung Hee, no doubt), that works cheap and will still be there for 10-20 years (ajushhi and ajumma manse!) |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| North Americans could pay their mortgages off quickly too, if they lived in Korean-sized apartments! |
If they lived in Korean-sized apartments in Detroit, maybe. In Boston, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Toronto, Vancouver, etc., no way. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
Mostly these articles are written by Koreans or people of Korean ancestry. While some points are true, these are not traits only Korea has, but most Asian countries (save for Japan and maybe HK and Singapore). Everytime I see a CNN article about Japan vs China, I can almost hear the teeth nashing together outside
I do say Korea hasnt had the best of leadership, but they benefit from a darn good infrastructure and a middle aged work force that is driven by their sense of duty (instilled by Bak Chung Hee, no doubt), that works cheap and will still be there for 10-20 years (ajushhi and ajumma manse!) |
Korea has better results than those countries it shares those traits with. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Korea has better results than those countries it shares those traits with.[/quote]
could be, but the lack of soft power and creativity is stifling, that said, i am manaical about keeping myself occupied. I import all kind of books/equipment/and the like to keep myself interested (Im sorry to be one of the ones who lived in Japan before(where creativity is rather rampant). I was talking with one of my hs boys yesterday and he and i were talking about games, even a 18y/o admitted theres not much to do here, besides the games. IMO Korea is great for sports lovers, alot of places to do them here and you can only spend so much time online. Their parents making them study is a good thing, I feel. But, as someone who has seen them study, there is almost no soft power development. I think its funny when I see creativity hagwons, as someone who comes from an artistic family (moi), Im always thankful I got it for free.
The infrastructure is fantastic(ly cheap) and works, but in the end, the country's people need the most developing, i feel. |
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