Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Summer Wine]

Ttompatz has made some good points and I must admit that anything that he seems to find problematic means that there are probably a number of issues that you really need to consider.

Ok the money may be standard, but considering the increase in inflation I have seen over the last few years, Korea will have to start increasing wages or accept that it may end up with experienced teachers looking elsewhere.

Second, while you are interested in setting up an organisation that can help teachers, the question about what happens if they lose thier job, will you provide another one while continuing thier accommodation is a good one.

In regards to shared housing, I spent a year with a teacher who never really hit it off with me and that did make life difficult. I know that he was not happy with me by the time I left and I never want to live again with people I dont know personally first.

Also the monthly dinners while they can be fun if you like the people you are with. Dinners typically consist of people forced to sit together, mind thier p's and q's while desperately hoping for it to end so they can catch up with thier real friends or just get home after a long day.

I enjoy your ethusiasm, but as someone who has been here a while and who is seeing the changes that Korea has experienced over the last 10 yrs, compiled with experience. I dont think it is going to work unless you source unexperienced teachers and once they get their feet under them, those benefits such as low pay, shared housing, (optional?) dinners will probably have them leaving your business at the end of thier first year.

Unless they are into cults and then it may become problematic for you.

[ReeNah]

[Summer Wine]

Well if you are going to do this, then firstly take it slowly.

Dont start with a roar and end with a whimper.

Secondly, start with one or two teachers and do it for a couple of years until you get a better understanding of it.

Thirdly, maybe work in Korea teaching english for a couple of years with a business not related to you to get a better understanding of it.

Fourthly, if you are going to do it, then look long term, the next 20 years and make long term plans.

Fifthly, accept that regardless of the standard wages, a worker earns his wages and the good teachers work for high wages.

[grnmle]

I think what everyone is telling you is that your idea is stale. Most people are better off fending for themselves. If you can avoid a recruiter you will typically be paid more. Go directly to the school if you can.

My personal beef is that recruiters really don't add anything. I feel that they are mostly the scum of the earth. They are certainly not to be trusted for anything more than introducing people. That's it. After that the recruiter is useless. I am especially weary of people that claim to have reinvented something.

Have you even considered that the whole part of the system that doesn't work is the one that you are actively trying to build onto? People don't want more recruiters. People don't want to write mandatory letters to you to inform you of what happened during the week. People don't want to have two people telling them what to do, let alone one.

The last thing I want is to have two of everything. I'd rather take my chances with one boss and not some nut that gets angry on the internet and calling others jerks and racists. I'm really amused by someone who wants to further contract out teachers on one hand but, who wants to start a union on the other. Those two concepts don't seem to go very well, historically speaking.

There are so many holes in your idea you are better just to give up.

[earthquakez]

Ree Nah - bonus systems like in the case of employee of the month are found in companies all over the world. But from what I know these employees ARE NOT of the kind that foreign English teachers are in Korea. They are not one year contract teachers on an E-2 type visa.

I'm not aiming this at you, I'm aiming at recruiters in Korea generally - this is a big part of the problem. People on year to year contracts as foreign English teacher in Korea do not have job security. One year contracts are the shittiest kind of contracts generally. Anywhere.

A one year contract in Korea says that the employee is not to be given the security or benefits of others who know that after a probationary period they can expect to be full time in the real sense of the word with all the opportunities for advancement, professional development etc that this implies.
I accept that this is the nature of contracts for English teaching in Korea and Asia and obviously other countries.

But what I'm saying here is, I have always noted in Korea that there is this constant messing around with our status. On one hand - you are not Korean, you do not get the Chuseok bonus, the New Years' bonus, etc etc. You are not Korean, you are a waygugin. You are hired help for one year and then we will decide whether you get renewed. There is no set, professional criteria for renewal in most English jobs in Korea, especially in hagwons - it's usually all up to whether one or two senior males like the waygugin.

On the other hand, demands on foreign English teachers are certainly increasing since my first job in Korea. School vacation cut so even when there's no school in session, most foreigners have to go in even when there is absolutely nobody at school apart from security. No extra pay for after school classes in some cases.

'Teaching seminars' held in teachers' free time but they are told they must go although it's in the vacation time that has already been decreased. This is not professional development - the seminars I went to consisted of Koreans telling us things we already know and those giving 'sessions' reading from the papers we have in our hands. These should only be for newcomers to Korea.

Foreign teachers are told: You are the same as Korean teachers. Fine, if we're the same then give us longer contracts and career paths. That's not going to happen of course but why then tell foreign teachers they're like Korean teachers only when the schools want to impose more restrictions on foreigners for declining conditions?

Having an employee of the month or whatever in my mind simply reinforces this Korean blindspot re the contradictory attitude towards foreigners on E-2 visas.

[ReeNah]

Tompatz and Summer Wine thanks for your input.

You're right. We are definately not ready. I guess I should have probably ask on these forums beforehand.

Okay let me try to organise ideas again.

So legal issues. You're right. In Korea you need a license to become a recruitment company. We already have one. One of the partners was working for the government for 20 odd years and he has one. So as a recruiting company we doing everything legally.

Summer Wine you're right. We are looking for 2 to 3 teachers start soon. We've got some people interested and we'll see how things go with that.

Yes I haven't been working in the Korean English Teaching industry for years however my colleagues have been running hakwons for over 10 years and our business idea is very appealing for hakwons.

What I was most concerned about was any legal issues that might arise. Since we are helping the hakwon sponser a native speaker so the E2 Visa should be no problem. My colleague has sponsered a native speaker before through his place so we know the procedure.

Some of the things I've gathered from here is:

Our wages are a problem it seems. You're right just because its the industry standard doesn't mean we have to stick by it. The reason I started asking on this forum was because I wanted everyone's opinons.

Secondly, the shared housing can pose a problem. We'll look into it. I've been talking to my colleague today and getting single room studios seems to be a good option as well.

So I've been getting flamed awfully alot in here and I must admit my moral is getting lower per post I read

However it's okay. As I've mentioned before this is only a start. I am not saying I'm going to create a perfect system but I want to start something that is better than what is in place at the moment.

I also understand I seem to have been very ignorant on alot of aspects and I thank alot of you for pointing out many things we need to reconsider.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear but we have a business proposal and I'm not offering you guys jobs here. If our wage strcutre for example has a problem with it, let me know, point me in the right direction if you can (thanks tompatz) and I'll find out more.

I know alot of people in here are here to flame me and trying to shut me down but I think it's because you guys have a huge prejudice towards recruiters. I am honestly trying to start a system here that is helpful for both native teachers and hagwons alike.

So to summarise:

1. We should look into the legal issues a little more. Can anyone suggest where it might be an issue?
2. Wages are too low. Definately needs to be looked into.
3. Housing.

What else?

Please keep posting everyone! Just try not too be too harsh or you might see on tonight's SBS news 'young Australian/Korean male commits suicide over work stress'!

Anyways cheers,
ReeNah

[ReeNah]

Hahaha just reading the posts again it seems this thread has become a "what do you hate about South Korea" thread hahaha...

I am sorry I shouldn't have called jerks and racists. I was being defensive towards comments you guys were making that's all. Accept my apology.

Cheers,
ReeNah

[grnmle]

I don't usually advocate taking such a drastic step but, you are thinking of starting another recruiting business. I say go ahead. Just kidding. But, not really.

[kprrok]

Sorry if you posted an answer to this, but your posts are long, rambling and the grammar is so poor at times that I can't understand what you're trying to say.....

My question is...How are you going to be able to issue E-2 visas if you are not an accredited language institute? I'm not 100% sure of this, but I don't think that recruiters or businesses other than language institutes (of a certain size even) can have E-2s issued for whiteys to work there.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[earthquakez]

What 'hate' from posters? Ree Nah you're going to have to face facts here.

1) Recruiters tend to be part of the problem, not the solution. You're going to have to face that fact if you want support from foreign English teachers.

2) Putting foreign English teachers together in shared digs just sounds like you want to save money. If foreign English teachers wanted to share with others they'd be asking for shared accommodation. I've never met any teacher in Korea who asked for that.

3) If you're serious about being better than 95 percent plus of recruiters, find decent accommodation for English teachers. As in a one bedroom apartment. Not a one room shithole in a building full of Koreans who don't work or have part time work at strange hours. This is a common accommodation problem for foreign English teachers.

4) Pay adequately for the experienced teachers. And in the case of the inexperienced teachers, regardless of whether they're fresh out of university or whatever, if the jobs you offer are demanding then pay them properly too. Personally I think 2 milion won sucks for anybody. Many jobs in Korea now have long hours and demand that foreigners teach by themselves.

5) Cut out the idea of 'awards' like employee of the month. It's not appropriate for one year contract, insecure positions.

No hate, just rationality here.

[ReeNah]

Okay cool. Is my grammer that bad? It's because I'm typing as I think. Will proof read now.


So okay.

Tax. After some digging around, I have found that a teacher on a salary of 2~2.2k is roughly 2%~3%. Is that correct? How is this exactly calculated?

I have also read that the taxable income is the remaining amount after 80,000w per day is deducted from the monthly wage. So does that mean that if we pay 2million won (for example) a month, the taxable income is zero? I also read that there are some seroius changes coming in this year but they don't seem to have been implemented? (http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=174830)

To EQ:

1) Acknowleged

2) Okay. Money isn't a big issue. Through my calculations if we do give teachers individual housing it will cost us around rougly 100,000w more a month per teacher, however it is not really a problem. Also putting teachers into a mouldy house with terrible neighbours is exactly the opposite of what we are trying to set up therefore we'd definately find accomodation of a decent standard.

3) I guess I've answered that above. If giving decent accomodation means we're better than 95% of recruiters it does make my work alot easier.

4) Can you specify adequately?

5) An awards program is a positive step? Why is not appropriate for one year contracts?

[ReeNah]

[interestedinhanguk]

I was always under the impression that you need to be accredited by The Department of Education (not sure specific name, but some government branch) to sponsor E2 visas.

Your wages are generally to low.

Since 30 teaching hours is the standard, plus transportation time between academies, the hours will probably be unbearable. Will you even have defined shifts? Or are you just going to call on these employees as you need them.

3 people in an apartment (and it's not even in Seoul), that's a joke. You mentioned 150,000-200,000 for housing as a possible alternative. That also is a joke. Would you provide key money?

My real question is (maybe I missed it), have you ever taught English in Korea?

[ReeNah]