Korean Job Discussion Forums

[calicoe]

I think university behavior can be a mixed bag in the States. I have a friend who is a uni professor back home, and she complains about the massive sense of entitlement of many of her students. I think the consumer mentality has changed a lot of the current generation's behavior toward their professors and university.

That being said, I did attend two top-5 universities, and one top-15, and I have never witnessed once the kind of behavior that I see at Korean universities, and I currently teach freshmen at a top Korean university.

And all of the behavior mentioned here is widespread: coming to class without a book, paper or pen; texting (may be a sign of the times, but I've never seen this back home in all the classrooms I sat in on); talking openly while the instructor is talking or other students are presenting - incredibly RUDE, and definitely NOT a behavior back home.

But the biggest shock so far: the widespread and open CHEATING on exams. There is no honor code or even a mention of what honorable behavior or ethics would be in this situation, and it shows, massively.

Everything here is all about the score or the end results, and it doesn't matter how it is attained. This is undoubtedly a widely observed value in this culture, which will naturally create a different academic setting, especially since their lives are supposedly "set" once they get into a university.

This is even more apparent right after midterms or at the end of the semester, once they have a bit of a clue of what their grades will be like, they stop "kissing up" and you get to see what their real faces are like.

[hogwonguy1979]

at my univ the % of malcontents is closer to 70% you should be so lucky. You name it I've had it. whats worse is when I try and clamp down my dept chair comes up to me and says "you need to me more kind to the students" I'm like "wtf???"

This semester I dont even have the weapon of failing the students. I have second semester second year students (I'm at a 2 year school) and my dept has told me to pass all the students even the ones who dont show up, fail the midterm, dont work etc with a min of a D+.

[jonpurdy]

I just graduated from uni (Canadian school) two years ago and came straight here. From what I remember, way more than 7% of us were goofing off in our classes. Using laptops, playing flash games, chatting, etc. This didn't happen much in smaller lectures (30 or fewer people) but in the big lectures almost everyone was doing it.

[Privateer]

[cdninkorea]

I teach at a university too, and some behaviour bothers me more than I'd like it too. My classes are only 15 students, so when students come late, text, leave to use the bathroom, etc. it really stands out. Classes are only 50 minutes long until there's a break, so the cell phones and bathroom trips are really absurd.

What gets to me though is the lack of shame: if a student comes late and looks apologetic (even if they don't say anything, just a look of apology), I'm okay with it. But when they barge in like they own the place, look annoyed when I interrupt their texting, and yawn without covering their mouths, it does irk me.

I try to ignore it and just focus on the hardcore students. It helps.

[asutrack]

I have been at my uni for 2 years now and I still have to check myself. Reading papers, texting etc. isn't a big deal in a huge lecture halls. However, coming in late and dragging desks around the room so you can sit with your friends....seriously. Talking out loud when other students are presenting/talking...c'mon. Putting on make-up in class with a HUGE mirror on your desk....really? I just try and go to a happy place but every once in awhile I can't control myself. One day, I just walked out of class without saying a word. I felt good for about an hour then I felt sorry for the 5-8 students that really are working in my class.

I may be a bit old but I never, ever, saw such behavior in my small lectures back in the day. In fact, if anyone tried such a thing more than once they would be kicked out of the class and told to take a withdrawal or fail.

The entire system at my school is a joke and unfortunately it is starting to wear me down. Thank goodness I only teach 52 days a year!

[hogwonguy1979]

[Son Deureo!]

I'm dealing with all of this right now as well teaching freshman English classes. At my school we are only allowed to give a limited percentage of students Ds or Fs, and as the semester is ending it looks like that limit will be filled (if not exceeded) by students who have not even showed up once. Showed up late once, without a book or a pencil, left after half an hour, and never came back for the rest of the semester? That's a C. With the bar set so low, no wonder the students who show up don't take the class seriously.

I used to work with mentally handicapped adults back home, teaching job and living skills, and I am not exaggerating when I say we held them to higher expectations than my fully functioning freshmen. Our students may never really need the English skills we've been hired to teach them, but shouldn't they at least learn that there are consequences for not showing up on time, being prepared, being disruptive, or refusing to put in an effort in the working world?

Sigh. How many more weeks until winter vacation?

[Milwaukiedave]

I understand the frustration as well. When someone is talking in class I usually stop talking and stare directly at them (intimidation is great).

One thing I would HIGHLY recommend if you don't do it already is at the beginning of the term have each student fill out a 3X5 card with the following information:

Class #
Name (in Korean and English)
Student #
Cell Phone #
Email Address
picture (they have to bring their own)

This makes it very easy to reference individual students whether there is a problem or if the student comes to you to ask a question (I have a terrible memory in terms of names).

ALSO I use the cards for penalty points (i.e. if they don't bring a book, using cell phones in class, etc). I write on the card "-1 no book". At the end of the term I subtract this from their participation score.

It helps me keep track of the students throughout the term.

[liveinkorea316]

I can fully understand your frustration. What you need to do is just chill out a bit. Then when you are calm just deal with things as people have suggested. Write the name of students who are not participating on the board and that means they lost 1% off their grade. If they don't care then just go until that person loses their full 10% or whatever you are alloted for that.

After a student has lost their full 10% you should be allowed to eject them from the class or at least refer them to the dean.

At My uni we have student like you mention but the fear of losing marks usually shuts them up. My dean has told us that we are allowed to fail students if that is necessary and there is sufficient reason for it.

If you show anger or resentment to the student you hare surely lost. You need to remain their friend and someone they can respect. If you lose it, then you lose the respect of the 'good' students in the class too. I am a rather big guy so i know I gotta be more careful of my body movements than others because my angry face and size can scare students. So I never show it. Last resort I would leave the class like you did. But these days I deal with it befopre then.

[calicoe]

Yeah, I can appreciate the comments here. The OP is not the only one in need of feedback. I had a very rough week last week. I try really hard to be a good instructor, but I sometimes strike out with my lessons, because their interest and reactions can be somewhat unpredictable. I try to find a good balance between the book, my own lessons, a little academic instruction on grammar, group activities and fun things like videos to illustrate a concept, and games.

I also try to forge a relationship with my class, but that can sometimes backfire if there is suddenly something half of them feel offended by. After midterms, it was as if the climate changed in half of my classes, among half of the students. The problem here is that they can then go and completely screw me over in their student evaluations. I try not to care, but it is nerve wracking and feels not completely fair.

This is what I wrote on another thread on Friday:

But sometimes, like today and this week, I just feel beaten down. I try to honestly teach them things that will help them: on their upcoming exams, in their next course, in life .... I cannot possibly play "games" with them everyday and feel that I have really taught them something.

Even at the university level, there are discipline problems, especially with freshman. Am I supposed to just let this slide and ignore it, and lose respect and the rest of the class, or say something about it and then have a million attitudes?

I just don't know, but today, I feel horrible. I feel that I do work hard as a teacher, and try hard, but students turn on me right after midterms, and it is like an infection that spreads.

I mean, I do have to grade students, but I am not harsh about it, and I give them plenty of hope and plenty of chances. And yet, I am now getting the passive-aggressive non-interest, and even dead-pan faces and rude good-byes from some of them.

What IS this about? What gives?

[calicoe]

double post

[Thiuda]

I have a very simple system that ensures that students in my classes come prepared, do their homework and pay attention.

First, I provide a very clearly structured, easy to read syllabus that spells out exactly how the students will be evaluated: mid-term 30%, final 30%, homework 20%, attendance 20%. The syllabus also provides them with a detailed schedule that includes what will be covered in class on which days, what page numbers in the text will be covered, and what needs to be completed for homework and handed in when.

Second, I explain to my students that an absence is penalized at -5%. So, the first absence is -5%, the second -10%, the third -15% and the fourth -20%. A fifth absence is an automatic fail. Excused absences are not penalized, though five excused absences also lead to an automatic fail. A late is penalized at 2.5% the fist time, 2.5% the second time, and thereafter each late is counted as an absence.

Third, I assign homework 12 times a semester. Each completed homework assignment is worth 2%, so students can miss homework twice and still receive the full 20%. I check homework every week and, crucially, I accept homework only at the beginning of the class in which it is due. I do not accept assignments at the end of class, nor the following week. If students are absent, I expect them to hand in homework through a proxy.

Fourth, I let students know that if they do not come prepared, i.e. no books and no pens, they will be marked absent.

If there is an issue with student behaviour, I deal with it immediately and publicly. If a student is sleeping, for example, I wake them up and ask them why they are sleeping. If students come in late, I ask them to come to the front of them room and ask them to explain, in English, why they are late. When students are in danger of failing I ask them to stay after class and explain to them that they are in danger of failing and that should they [insert problem here] again, they will fail. If a student fails during the semester, i.e. when it becomes impossible for them to pass my course based in the number of points that they've lost, I ask them to please not attend class anymore.

When it comes to mobiles, I tell students that if they need to make a phone call, or send a text message, they should get up quietly, leave the classroom and return once they've finished - just as if they'd have to go to the bathroom.

The above may not work for everyone, but I think the system has its merits: students know exactly what is required of them if they want to earn a decent grade, and the immediate consequences for poor performance provide a strong disincentive for disruptive behaviour. It is important, though, that the above system is tempered by being friendly and approachable, and by providing lots of positive feedback to the students.

[ReeNah]

Was going to say only 7%? I want lessons from you boss, how'd you keep your students so well mannered? The kids here are pretty rude in general I found compared to Australian kids. They not evil just lack basic manners.

If you sick and tired of your job, hand it over mate! Jokes!

I'm sure if you work it, you'll be able to figure out a way to get them all to pay attention. Or soon enough you won't care!

[Jodami]

Bump.

OP - you are some joker.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2013/11/197_145643.html