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Why South Korea instead of Japan or China?
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greekvvedge

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: Apkujeong

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject:

culture-wise, japan is the holy grail. not only for pop-culture, but for food, drink, underground music, literature, etc. korea, eh. this alone might make it worth the hard-work it takes to get started there.

metalhead

Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Opportunity

jzrossef wrote:

BTW, I hear that taxation can be ridiculously high in China... but maybe that's not the case for foreign workers?

Not sure where you heard that but it's not high.

For what it's worth, outside of Shanghai, on a decent ESL salary in China you'll still be earning a lot more than the average Chinese person, so your standard of living will be pretty good. China, especially in rich provinces like Jiangsu Province, is becoming increasingly western, not sure if this is a good thing or not. It's a lot easier finding western products/food in China than it is in Korea though, when I lived in Nanjing there was a German bakery with real bread down the road (3RMB for ciabatta for example) and two stores that exclusively sold foreign foods and booze, for example, a bottle of Cooper's Sparkling Ale was a mere 12RMB (I tend to judge places by alcohol selection, oopsies!), and they had more American food products at the one tiny store than they did at Costco in Korea.

qcat79

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Location: ROK

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject:

Nanjing is a tight city. i guess you could call it a mini Shanghai. for second tier it's probably near the top. besides there are a ton of universities in the city which makes female watching a pleasant past time. there is also a decent mexican restaurant there that has a live mariachi band.

shostahoosier

Joined: 14 Apr 2009

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject:

greekvvedge wrote:

culture-wise, japan is the holy grail. not only for pop-culture, but for food, drink, underground music, literature, etc.

korea, eh.

this alone might make it worth the hard-work it takes to get started there.

I'm not a Japan hater by any means. I like the place.

....but this statement is an entire thread in itself and pretty arguable. What is your rationale? I'm not trying to start a flame war or attack you, I'm just curious.

RichardT

Joined: 15 Nov 2010

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject:

shostahoosier wrote:

Part of what makes Japan so popular is its pop culture and the people who super-romanticize it.

They'll crawl over broken glass to achieve their dream of living in the land of manga, anime, and endless amounts of cute bunnies. I've met a few people like this in Korea who are bitter that they arent teacher there and to them Japan can do no wrong.

Japan is a great place though, but I'm not sure if the start up expenses, living expenses and competition make it worth it anymore. Who wants to "work to live"? I'm fine just visiting my friends there...not that they can do much since most of their money goes towards Japan's high cost of living.

I'm sure living in Japan is wonderful...but I'm very happy in Korea - AND I have money left over to pay off student loans, travel, and buy things (i.e. electronics) that I dont necessarily need....AND I still have money to spare after that. To each their own I guess.

I'm so guilty of this. i haven't seriously considered Japan because I just know there's no way I'd have the kind of start up cash I'd need to do it by the time I was ready to go. I tried several times jsut to take a weeks vacation there and i couldn't even save enough to manage that. I keep trying to find things about Korea that interest me as much as things about Japan did growing up. I feel a bit guilty for doing this though, because I feel like I'm using Japan as a model and forcing Korea to be like Japan in my mind... That said, I did like anime but never got into manga however I've found Manhwa that I like (is it as popular there as manga is elsewhere?) I've watched Korean films and have yet to see one I didn't like, so idk maybe it wasn't such a bad jumping point. But I still feel like I'm not going out of my way to find much that's truly uniquely Korean.

greekvvedge

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: Apkujeong

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:04 am Post subject:

shostahoosier wrote:

greekvvedge wrote:

food- the food is much more diverse in japan. although much more expensive. the foreign food is less tampered with. want thai? indian? taiwana chinese? vegetarian? i can think of dozens(hundreds) of places in osaka or tokyo that fit that description. korea is improving, but its just got nothing on japan.

drink- korean vs. japanese alcohol. japan has a developed and diverse brewing culture. you pay high for quality, but you don't end up disappointed. the best soju (shoju) is brewed in kyushu.

underground music- absolutely no comparison at all. the amount of clubs, venues, record stores in japan is comparable or greater than north america. koreans are content to download whatever the current trend is, but japanese generally follow music. they collect records and watch live shows. in tokyo alone there are hundreds of places to catch hip hop, metal, rock, jazz, punk/hardcore, reggae shows. in korea, i can only think of one place- hongdae. and less than a dozen clubs there (and i'm being generous). finding a record player here is impossible. finding a cd player is even a chore. i stand by this claim more than any other.

literature- japan has dozens of famous authors, modern and classical. take a look at how abundant japanese bookstores are. even the 7/11 is filled with magazines and books and comics. there are a few good locations in korea, but it cant compare to the amount of new and used book stores in japan. k-books and book-off are great and cheap.
this doesn't even count underground literature in japan. but in korea, as my korean author friend has said "literature in general is underground in korea".

I understand that some people may generally enjoy korea. thats good. but there is no comparison to culture in japan. korea is behind (and sadly they dont even know it).

On the other hand, Japan's culture can break you financially. Korea is a nice place to save and get drunk for really cheap -if thats your thing.

shostahoosier

Joined: 14 Apr 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:43 am Post subject:

greekvvedge wrote:

Oh, I understand what you mean now. From your earlier statement I just thought that you meant that Japan was pop culture center for the entire world. People living in London, Paris New York, etc. might disagree with you.

Japan does offer a lot more to do than Korea...and Korea has quite a way to go to catch up (if it wants to).

There actually is quite a bit more to do in Korea than "save and get drunk for really cheap". I've been finding this out recently and that's why I've been having a good time. Wink

greekvvedge

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: Apkujeong

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:49 am Post subject:

shostahoosier wrote:

greekvvedge wrote:

yes, perhaps that came out a little harsh. i've enjoyed a lot of stuff in korea in my 3 years here. but it does seem like that's what most teachers here are doing...or what many of them value.

shostahoosier

Joined: 14 Apr 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:07 am Post subject:

greekvvedge wrote:

yes, perhaps that came out a little harsh. i've enjoyed a lot of stuff in korea in my 3 years here. but it does seem like that's what most teachers here are doing...or what many of them value.

Truth (about many esl teachers). And it's sad too.

Died By Bear

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:20 am Post subject:

greekvvedge wrote:

snip

snip

snip

snip

I understand that some people may generally enjoy korea. thats good. but there is no comparison to culture in japan. korea is behind (and sadly they dont even know it).

snip

Oh, they know it alright. Whether or not they admit it is another bag of tricks.

HanlSky

Joined: 30 Jan 2010

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:41 am Post subject:

One thing in which Korea is better than Japan is the mountains. Japanese mountains are mostly volcanic and not hikable.

Caffeinated

Joined: 11 Feb 2010

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:00 am Post subject:

HanlSky wrote:

One thing in which Korea is better than Japan is the mountains. Japanese mountains are mostly volcanic and not hikable.

I've hiked the mountains in the 4 major islands and quite a few of the smaller ones as well and will disagree with this. Yes, Fuji is mostly scree starting from the fifth station but this is a small flaw to hike one of the most visually-appealing mountains in the world that is also a culturally-loaded experience. Yes, there are portions in the Daisetsuzan trail in Hokkaido or the Kirishima and Aso trails in Kyushu where you can get close to volcanic vents but the terrain can vary quite wildly from forest to low brush to crags in a single hike. Other than Fuji or Yakushima to see a famed tree, crowds weren't as much of an issue as they are in Seoul.

youtuber

Joined: 13 Sep 2009

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject:

One thing is for sure: in China, your health will be affected. Whether it is due to the excessive pollution, shoddy building materials, shoddy living conditions, vegetables being grown/washed with polluted water, ect ect ect your health will be affected. Don't forget that China has no health insurance system. You are sick? Pay first, then they will treat you.

youtuber

Joined: 13 Sep 2009

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Opportunity

[quote="metalhead"]

jzrossef wrote:

BTW, I hear that taxation can be ridiculously high in China... but maybe that's not the case for foreign workers?

The taxes take out about 13% of your paycheck. That is high IMHO. Much higher than Korea.

isitts

Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Why South Korea instead of Japan or China?

HanlSky wrote:

title question.

Where are the most amount of jobs? I just recently learned that China pays about the same and has very low cost of living so I am leaning towards China.

I haven't worked in China, but I have worked in Japan, Taiwan, and (now) Korea.

I'm not sure where the most jobs are. I was under the impression that TEFL jobs are everywhere. Though I have heard recently it's getting tougher in Japan.

I would mostly look at cost of living and standard of living.

Japan: High standard of living, but also high cost of living. Also does have the start up costs. I would only do Japan in the JET Program, where housing is subsidized. Rent is expensive in Japan.

Korea: High standard of living, low(er than Japan) cost of living. All jobs that I saw (for public schools and cram schools (hagwons) have subsidized housing.

China: Again, haven't been there, but the people who have worked there told me that you live like a king while in China, once you walk out of the country, you're poor.

Japan, Taiwan, and Korea, you can save a goodly amount of money (obviously, this depends on how you manage your money, but the saving potential for a higher amount is better in these countries than China.)

Taiwan (just to throw that in mix) has a fairly high standard of living, and very low cost of living. You get paid less but that's offset by the low cost of living.

...though how much you get paid is relative. Depends on whether you're going to stay in that country, or convert it back to dollars/pounds, etc. And with the currency fluctuation...I don't know.

I would choose the country you're interested in.

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