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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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 Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
Is there still significant discrimination against male instructors at the university level? And if so, why? The hagwon/kindy argument of "well, women are just better with children" no longer has any relevance in university, right? |
Women are more understanding of the students' special needs. 
But seriously, you should stop worrying about it. Most university teachers are men because women don't apply for those jobs as much. (Buying into the "women love children" mentality themselves I guess.) Maybe a woman would be favored if she applied, just for the sheer novelty of it. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
| To some degree, employers in Korea still favor the white female face, but qualifications are becoming more and more important. |
Yeah, but are UNIVERSITIES favoring females?
It's no secret that hagwons and kindergartens favor females. They often don't even try to hide it -- they say so right in their ads.
But by university, this "I'm a shy, plaid skirt-wearing, only-able-to-speak-at-0.1-decibels girl, no male teacher will do" mentality has hopefully evaporated...
Is there still significant discrimination against male instructors at the university level? And if so, why? The hagwon/kindy argument of "well, women are just better with children" no longer has any relevance in university, right? |
I don't know if I'd go as far as saying universities purposely hire female applicants over male applicants. I was speaking about employers in general (this would include hagwons, public schools and universities). I can only speak from personal experience, which is that at the place I work now we have 20 native speakers and I believe it is about 15/5 in favor of the males. The last university I worked at leaned more in favor of females. It would be interesting to see the actual percentages overall of all universities in Korea though. |
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T-dot
Joined: 16 May 2004
Location: bundang
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. There may be a few who arent, but I would venture a guess and say at least 75% would be. |
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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| T-dot wrote: |
| Yes. There may be a few who arent, but I would venture a guess and say at least 75% would be. |
But that might just be because the vast majority who applied were male...
For instance, if 1,000 men apply for jobs as university teachers, and 10 women apply for the same jobs, and the final balance of teachers hired is 15 men and 5 women, then that is an extreme example of sex discrimination in favor of women... Men who applied were only 1.5% likely to get hired, but women were 50% likely to get hired.
Although I know the applicant ratios aren't that skewed in real life, I'm just illustrating that we cannot just say "well, there are plenty of men who have been hired, therefore discrimination is not an issue." |
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carleverson
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
| but qualifications are becoming more and more important. |
maybe at some universities, but at other universities that are competing against each other for students, white female teachers that can attract $tudent$ and their tuition money is the most important thing... |
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geosdsd
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Location: Davis, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| What about gyopos v. whites? Would the person with lighter complexion and blue eyes win? |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| T-dot wrote: |
| Yes. There may be a few who arent, but I would venture a guess and say at least 75% would be. |
But that might just be because the vast majority who applied were male...
For instance, if 1,000 men apply for jobs as university teachers, and 10 women apply for the same jobs, and the final balance of teachers hired is 15 men and 5 women, then that is an extreme example of sex discrimination in favor of women... Men who applied were only 1.5% likely to get hired, but women were 50% likely to get hired.
Although I know the applicant ratios aren't that skewed in real life, I'm just illustrating that we cannot just say "well, there are plenty of men who have been hired, therefore discrimination is not an issue." |
The problem with getting upset about this is that you are not looking at the reasons why only ten women would apply for this job. Those ten women have already overcome a fat load of discrimination to even get to the point of applying. And then there's the 990 women who didn't apply at all... what happened to them? Are they just not interested in five months of paid vacation a year? Unlikely.
And then of course the end result still has fewer women than men accepted to the same job. Yeah, that's totally unfair... oh wait, you think it's unfair to men. We're just going to have to disagree there. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| carleverson wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
| but qualifications are becoming more and more important. |
maybe at some universities, but at other universities that are competing against each other for students, white female teachers that can attract $tudent$ and their tuition money is the most important thing... |
I don't think you quite realize how the Korean College Entrance Exam works and how Korean students are placed into Universities.
Also, I don't think you know about the Korean mindset when it comes to choosing a University that family, friends and potential employers are going to be impressed by.
Having a white female teacher has very little if not nothing to do with the situation. |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| My uni looks at education/experience and that is all...age only comes into it if the candidate is too young...you have to be over 30. |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| 1,000 men apply for jobs as university teachers, and 10 women apply for the same jobs, and the final balance of teachers hired is 15 men and 5 women, then that is an extreme example of sex discrimination in favor of women... Men who applied were only 1.5% likely to get hired, but women were 50% likely to get hired. |
Where was THIS?? I'm furious!!!! |
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carleverson
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dongjak wrote: |
| carleverson wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
| but qualifications are becoming more and more important. |
maybe at some universities, but at other universities that are competing against each other for students, white female teachers that can attract $tudent$ and their tuition money is the most important thing... |
I don't think you quite realize how the Korean College Entrance Exam works and how Korean students are placed into Universities.
Also, I don't think you know about the Korean mindset when it comes to choosing a University that family, friends and potential employers are going to be impressed by.
Having a white female teacher has very little if not nothing to do with the situation. |
I do know. I've been teaching at Korean universities for almost 10 years. Reading what you wrote, I doubt you know. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| I think you are delusional about the whole system, that or you think very highly of yourself to believe that the appearance of a foreign English teacher is going to make a student decide on a certain university. |
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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Draz wrote: |
| Those ten women have already overcome a fat load of discrimination to even get to the point of applying. |
Okay, so to recap your opinion, you're saying that the Korean EFL industry discriminates against women and makes it harder for women to get decent employment.
Is that a correct summary of what you just said? |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Draz wrote: |
| Those ten women have already overcome a fat load of discrimination to even get to the point of applying. |
Okay, so to recap your opinion, you're saying that the Korean EFL industry discriminates against women and makes it harder for women to get decent employment.
Is that a correct summary of what you just said? |
I'm saying that Korea in general is a hostile environment for women that discriminates against them and makes it harder for women to get any kind of "serious" work. Secretary, kindergarten teacher, flight attendant? Women's work. University instructor? Stand back, ladies. This one isn't for you. |
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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| I'm black and did worked at an university. |
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