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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| A student with autism is just as much as a label as an autistic student. As far as I am concerned it is this overly PC attitude which gets in the way of effective teaching. And JFYI I have taught students with "special needs" back in the West...but now I am older and wiser and no longer buy into all that PC mumbo-jumbo. |
There is your first problem with this idea. It is not as far as YOU are concerned because it doesn't concern YOU. It is as far as people with disabilities are concerned. They don't want to be labeled as a "mentally handicapped person". So don't label them that way. To me it is not a matter of being PC or not. It is a matter of compassion. Agree to disagree on that I guess. I just wish you would reconsider it.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Not allowed. As I already pointed out you are "forced" to adhere to the curriculum. |
This I find hard to swallow. Yes, schools here and in the west have curriculums that must be followed. They are passed down to the schools by a regional or national office. However, most schools do not expect a child with severe mental retardation to learn the same way as students without it. In my experience, if my principals walked in on me teaching and saw that I was teaching geometry to an inclusion classroom and was not differentiating instruction to help students with special needs, I would be in hot water.
I guess you have had poor luck in working at schools that are not experienced in inclusion settings. Have most of the schools you worked at usually stuck the students with learning disabilities in the back of the school in the basement? I know this was the case years ago when I was in school but that is hard to find now.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I never used race or socioeconomic status to do such a thing, I never even mentioned them. Not only is that a red herring, it is utterly false and just as offensive to me as the phrase "mentally handicapped" is to you. I strongly suggest you refrain from such baseless, vile accusations in the future.
And just for the record "mentally handicapped" is the KOREAN teachers designation not mine. |
Oh, and I'm sorry your failure to provide ownership to the KOREAN teachers for your offensive remark was apparently MY fault because I wasn't able to comprehend your lack of writing ability. Riiiight. Maybe under "teaching reading comprehension" you should add a bullet that says "but still working on effective writing...."
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Where did I say I didn't even try? Where did I say I have stopped trying?
This is exactly ]why my sig line says what it does about reading comprehension... although to be fair you're not the only one I've pulled up on that. |
According to Bloom's taxonomy "comprehension" is the second lowest level of the tree. Pretty basic stuff. See what I did, was I took what you said about innercity students and I applied what I know about teaching in Baltimore City. See, I related what I read to my personal experience. (Thats application, a step up from comprehension). Then I CREATED (the highest step) an inference about your association with inner city youth (who are predominately lower income minorities). See how I arrived there, or did I lose you?
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I see how you arrived, however you applied it improperly. First you related it to your personal experience. Right off the bat that's a failure. My personal experience is different as I am Canadian and have only taught in Canadian schools where the majority of students were Caucasian. Then you created an assumption based on false inferences.
And as far as the curriculum thing goes...we aren't talking "severe mental retardation" Very mild actually. But these are students who weren't taught the KOREAN alphabet properly so it's difficult to teach them English to say the least. And yes, I was given a book and told to teach them that. When I suggested that it was too advanced they just told me to read the stories then...but to stick with the book. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| languistic wrote: |
My word. Perhaps I should draw you a map - in crayon.
I was speaking of a average EFL class in Korea. Context needs to be spelled out I guess, even on an EFL board in Korea.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Context needs to be spelled out? Yes, particularly when the context is changed. First you claimed "ANY group of students" (Capitals are mine) Now it's "an average EFL class." |
As for you assertion that "it tends to fail miserably in real life"...what's to be said? I guess teachers around the world are thus doomed by the broad strokes of TUM.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| See above. |
It is my job to connect to the students, not the students to connect to me. If a class is failing miserably, I generally blame myself. Sure I have had better and worse classes, but I can say that I have never had a washout stinker in my life, at any level of teaching, from kids to adults.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| What's your definition of "washout stinker"? You just said above that "If a class is failing miserably, I generally blame myself". If that is not a washout stinker then I guess I can say I've never had one as well. |
Countdown to more ripping remarks... par for the course here. Rip on those who care until they join the mass in the morass of apathy, anger and hopelessness. A bitter bunch, to be sure. |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I care...but I'm also rational. To think this way may be sad but realistic. To think any other way is just sad.
In sum, most students you can reach and teach. Some you can't. There's a reason the saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" is a widely known saying.
And when criticizing others for "ripping remarks" it generally lends more credibility to your statements when you don't engage in the same practice...how's that crayon map coming? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| balzor wrote: |
I hate the edutainer aspect...
Doesn't matter really, i am looking to get out of Korean PS. I'm probably headed elsewhere anyway. |
I'm with you on the edutainer aspect. Ridiculous how the foreign teacher's class is expected to be fun. What I do is basically set the tone before I even step into class with the administration/VP/Principal
"I am a teacher. I teach. If you want entertainment I suggest you hire a guy in a clown suit."
And I wouldn't worry too much about the open class...I bombed my first one as well and was still re-signed for the next two years after that. If they don't want you because of one bad class...then it's probably not a school you want to work at anyway. |
If you can't handle the different teaching culture than go home. If you're a certified teacher, why can't you get a job there? Stop bragging about it and knock it down. You're dealing with kids in a second language which they find very boring and are usually not interested in. You have to make it fun and exciting to keep their interest. Blabbing on in a monotone voice like you would back home won't cut it here. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't mean to harp on certified teachers, only those who brag about it. ESL is what it is. Anyone who denies that needs to find a new career. Teaching adults might be different. For kids, lots of pictures or power point is ok. For example, if you talk about thanksgiving, show a picture of some pilgrims and ask who they are. Tolerate some funny answers from the students. Say a few funny answers of your own. Then tell them briefly who they are. Then show a cooked Turkey. Ask them what it is. (Trust me; students love food and pictures of it. Ha ha) Maybe act out eating or being full. Ask if there are any questions? (I suppose in an unobserved class, I would prob allow for some translation to answer the culture questions. In an observed class, I would prob try to minimize the translation aspect.) Then go on to your activities. Wikipedia and Google searches are great places to get pictures. I get pretty high marks on my teaching. Not bad for having only a Bachelors and no TESOL, huh? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Xylox wrote: |
| definitely maybe wrote: |
| The guy's already admitted a number of mistakes. Was additional criticism really necessary? |
The best time to kick someone is when they are down, obviously. |
Maybe I was a little harsh but from my own experience as a language learner I really don't like teacher-centered language learning and teachers who just ramble on without giving students much chance to interact and participate. I've had too many Korean language teachers who were like that.
However from what the OP said perhaps the class was so low-level interaction and participation activities might not have worked well either. In that case you probably should do what the Korean English teachers do for open classes- make the students rehearse and memorize some activity until they can do it perfectly and perform that in front of the parents. It's a bit phony but it's what seems to be expected and they all go home happy. |
Ain't that the sad truth? |
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Catfisher
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| balzor wrote: |
Partly was my fault also. Make sure you have a good warm-up, I didn't. Make sure to have a lot of class interaction, including group AND individual activities. My class happened to be the lowest functioning class and my co-teacher is mute most of the time so I put the burden on myself and they didn't like that either. I talked about Thanksgiving and gave a little history of it and talked about foods and stuff. They thought I took too long to explain stuff. They said I should have given a reading material and let the class do a group discussion. This is not feasible in my class as they are mostly beginners and I would have to explain or read out everything anyways, but the evaluator insisted this was what I should have done.
I admit that I kinda rambled on a little and didn't give my co-teacher a chance to do much, but I treated it as a normal class and I should have not done so. |
From the sound of it I think I would have hated your class too. Sounds like you didn't make any effort to prepare and/or you don't understand student-centered learning. |
Wow, showing what a Mod Edit you are on yet another thread. Well Done!!
OP, it's the Korean way to only criticize and never praise. Coteachers will only tell you when you have done something wrong and not something well. The best way to keep the cogs running smoothly is to tell them you realize you could have done better and next time you will work harder. That's the kindof buttkiss talk they like to hear. Those open classes are all a dog and pony show anyway. The more "flash" you have the "better" your class will be (as perceived by the powers and the parents). |
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Poker
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Catfisher wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| balzor wrote: |
Partly was my fault also. Make sure you have a good warm-up, I didn't. Make sure to have a lot of class interaction, including group AND individual activities. My class happened to be the lowest functioning class and my co-teacher is mute most of the time so I put the burden on myself and they didn't like that either. I talked about Thanksgiving and gave a little history of it and talked about foods and stuff. They thought I took too long to explain stuff. They said I should have given a reading material and let the class do a group discussion. This is not feasible in my class as they are mostly beginners and I would have to explain or read out everything anyways, but the evaluator insisted this was what I should have done.
I admit that I kinda rambled on a little and didn't give my co-teacher a chance to do much, but I treated it as a normal class and I should have not done so. |
From the sound of it I think I would have hated your class too. Sounds like you didn't make any effort to prepare and/or you don't understand student-centered learning. |
Wow, showing what a Mod Edit you are on yet another thread. Well Done!!
OP, it's the Korean way to only criticize and never praise. Coteachers will only tell you when you have done something wrong and not something well. The best way to keep the cogs running smoothly is to tell them you realize you could have done better and next time you will work harder. That's the kindof buttkiss talk they like to hear. Those open classes are all a dog and pony show anyway. The more "flash" you have the "better" your class will be (as perceived by the powers and the parents). |
lol, that is certainly not true. I think you may have experienced some bad moments teaching in Korea to think that way. In my experience, I get praised left, right and center. There is no Korean way, some people like to criticize, some don't. Don't make it sound like fact. Personal experience determines how you view them. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Don't mean to harp on certified teachers, only those who brag about it. ESL is what it is. Anyone who denies that needs to find a new career. Teaching adults might be different. For kids, lots of pictures or power point is ok. For example, if you talk about thanksgiving, show a picture of some pilgrims and ask who they are. Tolerate some funny answers from the students. Say a few funny answers of your own. Then tell them briefly who they are. Then show a cooked Turkey. Ask them what it is. (Trust me; students love food and pictures of it. Ha ha) Maybe act out eating or being full. Ask if there are any questions? (I suppose in an unobserved class, I would prob allow for some translation to answer the culture questions. In an observed class, I would prob try to minimize the translation aspect.) Then go on to your activities. Wikipedia and Google searches are great places to get pictures. I get pretty high marks on my teaching. Not bad for having only a Bachelors and no TESOL, huh? |
This would be a great lesson for a class of students who are all the same level. It includes visual stimulus (pictures and other media) and a motivating topic (food). However what do you in a class with students who have no idea what you're saying and can't even read, and then on the other end, students who are going to find this boring and way too easy? So yes, your lesson would be great for 80% of your class. But why shoot for only 80%? Because 80% is a "pretty high mark" right?
I think if you observed an experienced teacher who is still trying to educate ALL students, you will learn a lot about effective teaching strategies that will work with that other 20%.
Furthermore, I find that a large problem with the Korean education system is this teach to the middle philosophy. There are no special ed teachers. GT students get their fill from hagwons, which is some what of a solution I guess.
Your right in that a certification doesn't replace experience. Similarly, I agree that it is just a piece of paper. However, to get that paper you have to expose yourself to a variety of teaching theories and professional development opportunities. If you don't apply anything you learned to your classes then your certification is worthless. But if you're doing it right, your classes will be much more effective then what you listed above as your typical lesson. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| balzor wrote: |
I hate the edutainer aspect...
Doesn't matter really, i am looking to get out of Korean PS. I'm probably headed elsewhere anyway. |
I'm with you on the edutainer aspect. Ridiculous how the foreign teacher's class is expected to be fun. What I do is basically set the tone before I even step into class with the administration/VP/Principal
"I am a teacher. I teach. If you want entertainment I suggest you hire a guy in a clown suit."
And I wouldn't worry too much about the open class...I bombed my first one as well and was still re-signed for the next two years after that. If they don't want you because of one bad class...then it's probably not a school you want to work at anyway. |
If you can't handle the different teaching culture than go home. If you're a certified teacher, why can't you get a job there? Stop bragging about it and knock it down. You're dealing with kids in a second language which they find very boring and are usually not interested in. You have to make it fun and exciting to keep their interest. Blabbing on in a monotone voice like you would back home won't cut it here. |
Are you involved in some kind of competition to see who can make the most erroneous and silly assumptions on a message board? |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And as far as the curriculum thing goes...we aren't talking "severe mental retardation" Very mild actually. But these are students who weren't taught the KOREAN alphabet properly so it's difficult to teach them English to say the least. And yes, I was given a book and told to teach them that. When I suggested that it was too advanced they just told me to read the stories then...but to stick with the book. |
Regardless of the severity, there is a learning disability that needs to be accomodated. (extra time, tiered assignments, varied workload, etc...) Just reading a story isn't going to get the job done.
If your adminstrator can't see that, then your school has no idea what it's doing and is wasting your time, the students' time and parent's or taxpayer money.
I'm pretty sure from your experience and other posts that I have read that you are a solid teacher. I hope you find a place that can take advantage of it. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Jrwhite - I'm in a similar place as TUM. Technical high school, one of my kids is mildly autistic. It's bad enough that he has trouble with the Korean language, nothing to say about English. He doesn't pay any attention, he wanders around class, he bothers the other students. The material is way over his head, and the material is really low level stuff (see technical high school).
Last year in my middle school I had a student with severe ADD and fetal alcohol syndrome. Of course, no one bothered to mention this to me and it was about a month before it clicked that that was his problem.
How are we supposed to teach a class when there are students whose needs are so different from the rest of the class that you have to ignore one or the other to get the job done properly? In the schools I have worked in, there are no programs or assistance for children with special needs. They are just "mainstreamed" all the time even when that is NOT in their best interests.
OP, the poster who mentioned student centered learning is on the right track. I try and plan my lessons so that the students are doing more than 50% of the talking. I wouldn't worry too much, just listen to what they suggest and see if it fits your model of educator, not edutainer. Plenty of suggestions I've completely ignored - I am an educator, too.
Good luck! |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Start looking for another job.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ramen wrote: |
| Start looking for another job. |
Funny you should say that...as that is what I am doing.
jrwhite: I believe the problem is that said administrator choose the book. It would result in a loss of face for her, particularly as another teacher already told her it was too difficult for the students. But she didn't listen to either the teacher or me. And now it's impossible to change her stance without losing face.
Anyway I have chosen (as of today) not to re-sign. When you are being hamstrung by those who are supposed to be supporting you, you can't do much. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Open lessons are a farce. The main purpose behind the open lesson is to keep Government officials in the dark about what really goes on in the classroom.
Example-
(1) Con Korean teacher claim they can't use Task based Communicative lessons in the regular classes because the lessons are too noisy so they get a budget for an English Multi- media room and a Native speaker.
Truth- All you really need for a task based activity is motivated students and the ability to change the seating plan so the students are in groups.
(2) Con- Korean English teachers use the Multi-media room for Exam prep. In other words the room they spent so much money on is not used for it's original intention.
Truth- Lots of money has been wasted on the room for a lesson that could just have easily been taught in the traditional classes.
(3) Con- The POE officials are kept in the dark by a fabricated lesson. Most of the actors are working from a carefully memorised script. The students are not working towards the goal of autonomy and Life long learning. They are meerly learning to memorize a single communicative lesson.
Truth- When this is finished they will never use this lesson again. They will delete the Powerpoint from their hardrive and the scoreboard will end up in the recyclebox. The students who performed well will get cookies and candies. If the NET performed well his/her contract will be re-newed. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fishead soup wrote: |
Open lessons are a farce. The main purpose behind the open lesson is to keep Government officials in the dark about what really goes on in the classroom.
Example-
(1) Con Korean teacher claim they can't use Task based Communicative lessons in the regular classes because the lessons are too noisy so they get a budget for an English Multi- media room and a Native speaker.
Truth- All you really need for a task based activity is motivated students and the ability to change the seating plan so the students are in groups.
(2) Con- Korean English teachers use the Multi-media room for Exam prep. In other words the room they spent so much money on is not used for it's original intention.
Truth- Lots of money has been wasted on the room for a lesson that could just have easily been taught in the traditional classes.
(3) Con- The POE officials are kept in the dark by a fabricated lesson. Most of the actors are working from a carefully memorised script. The students are not working towards the goal of autonomy and Life long learning. They are meerly learning to memorize a single communicative lesson.
Truth- When this is finished they will never use this lesson again. They will delete the Powerpoint from their hardrive and the scoreboard will end up in the recyclebox. The students who performed well will get cookies and candies. If the NET performed well his/her contract will be re-newed. |
Ain't that the truth? But when in the game, you got to play by their rules. Otherwise, you'll get burned. |
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