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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
Depends on the school and the boss....it's really only 3 hours of work(9 to 12) followed by lunch and BS'ing around one whatever(watching movies, studying, etc.) until 4:30.
Some schools tried to maximize time and work or made you deskwarm...they suck....others filled your desk time with extra classes(and money). |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, low teaching hours but you have to be at the school for 8 hours. You can't leave, it is not your free time. You have to be at work from 830 to 430 for a low salary. But whatever, it seems like people like this deal. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| dongjak wrote: |
| Yes, low teaching hours but you have to be at the school for 8 hours. You can't leave, it is not your free time. You have to be at work from 830 to 430 for a low salary. But whatever, it seems like people like this deal. |
Most people do it for the vacation time, although these days most public schools only have 2 more weeks of vacation than a hogwon. Then there's the whole argument of getting paid on time and not getting screwed out of benefits and end of contract stuff.
I never understood how people treat 2 weeks off twice a year like its so much better than 1 week of twice a year. Summer and Winter Camps set aside, you have to spend almost 40 weeks a year coteaching large classes full of kids who can't say anything and don't want to.
The best jobs in Korea are those hogwons only 5-6 hours long in the evening with elem and middle school students in small classes who actually want to learn and have plenty to say.
Sorrowfully, most hogwons have really gone to hell, and are 9-6 with kindies or 2-10 with 2 hr long classes. Both the public school and hogwon market have fallen apart, and colleges aren't giving 3-5 months off anymore, either...most are hard to get without an MA either.
Maybe Korea isn't even worth it anymore... |
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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Public school vacay is much higher than on paper.....if your school doesn't make you deskwarm in vacay periods, it's closer to 6-8 weeks...PAID.
A ton of random days off and ALL holidays....I'd say at least 30+ days or half days with little to no work(test days, field trips, etc.).
I had far more time off than I knew what to do with.
Granted, principals and staff change so you situation can likely only last a few years at most before a real hard ass or indifferent guy comes in to change things up.
| dongjak wrote: |
| Yes, low teaching hours but you have to be at the school for 8 hours. You can't leave, it is not your free time. You have to be at work from 830 to 430 for a low salary. But whatever, it seems like people like this deal. |
I made 3mil - 3.5 mil a month on average....a few others I know are making over 4 mil....This is a small minority....if you met somebody who's been in the school system for the long haul(2+ years), he's not making standard pay or he has a ton of privates.
It was even possible for me to go over 4 mil if I played my cards alittle better.
It really depends on your school....some schools want you to be rich or maintain a seperate after school program....and be rewarded greatly.
Others pretty much deny their foreigner any chance to make additional income legally within the school system....my neighbor had that..2 million all the way....some feel the need to punish their foreigner as a pork barrel project.
Some schools districts specifically go out of there way to maintain a wealthy set of loyal teachers that get paid higher.....hell, I had a slush fund at mine!
However, SMOE has been tightening their belts and regulations... |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| minos wrote: |
Public school vacay is much higher than on paper.....if your school doesn't make you deskwarm in vacay periods, it's closer to 6-8 weeks...PAID.
A ton of random days off and ALL holidays....I'd say at least 30+ days or half days with little to no work(test days, field trips, etc.).
I had far more time off than I knew what to do with.
Granted, principals and staff change so you situation can likely only last a few years at most before a real hard ass or indifferent guy comes in to change things up.
| dongjak wrote: |
| Yes, low teaching hours but you have to be at the school for 8 hours. You can't leave, it is not your free time. You have to be at work from 830 to 430 for a low salary. But whatever, it seems like people like this deal. |
I made 3mil - 3.5 mil a month on average....a few others I know are making over 4 mil....This is a small minority....if you met somebody who's been in the school system for the long haul(2+ years), he's not making standard pay or he has a ton of privates.
It was even possible for me to go over 4 mil if I played my cards alittle better.
It really depends on your school....some schools want you to be rich or maintain a seperate after school program....and be rewarded greatly.
Others pretty much deny their foreigner any chance to make additional income legally within the school system....my neighbor had that..2 million all the way....some feel the need to punish their foreigner as a pork barrel project.
Some schools districts specifically go out of there way to maintain a wealthy set of loyal teachers that get paid higher.....hell, I had a slush fund at mine!
However, SMOE has been tightening their belts and regulations... |
Those public schools that hook you up with vacation time are generally in the middle of nowhere. I knew some girls fresh out of college in SMOE who got a lot of time off; I didn't. For every one person that gets hooked up, plenty more don't. I belive the standard over time for most public schools is down to just 20,000 per hour...and it's becoming more enforced, judging by the forums. |
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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: |
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My school was in Seoul. Vacay depends on your principal....
Yeah, it's a crap shoot...
Overtime was always 20,000 won an hour...it was enforced when I was getting 30,000 an hour to do so plus a under the table raise of 100,000.....nothing changed.
I do know more folks who got average or horrible compensation than I do than my situation.... |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
This is absurd. PS crap on hagwons.
First low salary? There isn't a big difference in pay.
8 hours? This is comparable to most hagwons. Especially places like CDI that make them come in a few hours early to prep (which they don't get paid for). My friend goes in at about 2 to prep. He teaches from 4-10:30. That's 8.5 hours. He only gets paid for 6.5
Reasons why public schools are better:
-Always get paid on time
-Get breaks and don't have to teach 6+ hours consecutively.
-Get a lunch break
-Get to take naps
-Don't get fired on the 11th month
-Get pension/medical
-Get severance
-Never have to work on weekends
-All holidays off
-Plenty of free time due to things students having to take certain tests. I get so many random days or periods off.
-I've gotten around 8 weeks vacation from my school
-When I do have to desk warm, it was only from 9-12
-My own laptop
-I have the night to myself, meaning I can go on dates or hang out with friends instead of working at night.
-No split shifts.
Honestly I can't see how people can even defend hagwons. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
This is absurd. PS crap on hagwons.
First low salary? There isn't a big difference in pay.
8 hours? This is comparable to most hagwons. Especially places like CDI that make them come in a few hours early to prep (which they don't get paid for). My friend goes in at about 2 to prep. He teaches from 4-10:30. That's 8.5 hours. He only gets paid for 6.5
Reasons why public schools are better:
-Always get paid on time
-Get breaks and don't have to teach 6+ hours consecutively.
-Get a lunch break
-Get to take naps
-Don't get fired on the 11th month
-Get pension/medical
-Get severance
-Never have to work on weekends
-All holidays off
-Plenty of free time due to things students having to take certain tests. I get so many random days or periods off.
-I've gotten around 8 weeks vacation from my school
-When I do have to desk warm, it was only from 9-12
-My own laptop
-I have the night to myself, meaning I can go on dates or hang out with friends instead of working at night.
-No split shifts.
Honestly I can't see how people can even defend hagwons. |
Reasons why a very few elite short shift afternoon hogwons are better than public schools:
-small classes
-everyone is well over beginner level and you can actually have conversations with your kids
-no kindies: just elem-middle, maybe high school students
-no coteaching/coteacher issues
-great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well.
-make tons of money for less than 8 hours a day; 20-25 teaching hrs.
-go to bed around midnight and get up around 8 or 9 on weekdays
-if you have a good job/boss, you WILL get more than 2 weeks of, so as long as you do your job, you'll probably even be asked to renew and not get scammed out of everything
-No workshops
-No demo lessons
-No orientations and other large, useless sessions and get togethers
-plenty of time for learning Korean, getting and online degree, or making more money....getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED, and it's harder to study anything then. It's better to sleep in, work on any of the above things, THEN go to work, and THEN call it a day. My 2 cents.
Now, I'll agree that 90-95% of hogwons suck, whether they're 9-6 kindies or 1-9, 1-10, 2-10, 2-11 afternoon hogwons with 2 hour classes. All the big kindie and afternoon hogwons are for noobs, lets face it. Gotta cut your teeth somewhere. But if you're in Korea, want to network, keep your ear to the ground, talk to a bunch of recruiters and people in your own little social scene, you can get something like 2-7/8 or 3-8/9 and see how awesome a hogwon can be. Alas, those jobs are few and far in between these days. Otuside of Korea, I can only seem to get 9-6 and 1-9/2-10 hogwons, so I'll probably just take my chances with GEPIK again.
On a lighter note, those 12-6 after school programs look sweet....
Last edited by bcjinseoul on Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
This is absurd. PS crap on hagwons.
First low salary? There isn't a big difference in pay.
8 hours? This is comparable to most hagwons. Especially places like CDI that make them come in a few hours early to prep (which they don't get paid for). My friend goes in at about 2 to prep. He teaches from 4-10:30. That's 8.5 hours. He only gets paid for 6.5
Reasons why public schools are better:
-Always get paid on time
-Get breaks and don't have to teach 6+ hours consecutively.
-Get a lunch break
-Get to take naps
-Don't get fired on the 11th month
-Get pension/medical
-Get severance
-Never have to work on weekends
-All holidays off
-Plenty of free time due to things students having to take certain tests. I get so many random days or periods off.
-I've gotten around 8 weeks vacation from my school
-When I do have to desk warm, it was only from 9-12
-My own laptop
-I have the night to myself, meaning I can go on dates or hang out with friends instead of working at night.
-No split shifts.
Honestly I can't see how people can even defend hagwons. |
I think there is a big difference in pay. For a lot of newbies in GEPIK, pay starts out at 2 million. Take away money for taxes, etc, you're down to around 1.7/1.8.
Then for the first 3 months, they take out 300,000 won. My first 3 paychecks were like 1.4/1.5.
A hagwon may only take out a deposit once, and most good ones start at 2.2/2.3.
As for vacation, like a lot of other people said, you got a lucky deal. My school followed the book to the letter and I only got 4 weeks of vacation like in the contract. I had to deskwarm all day and no 9-12.
I've even heard of some public schools asking you on your interview, if you would be willing to come in on a Saturday every now and then (a school I interviewed for did).
Now you are spot on about severance, pension, not getting fired in the 11th month etc. And those random days off were nice.
I think hagwons get more of a bad rep because there are way more of them than PS, thus more horror stories, but there are good hagwons out there, and from what I've heard, a good hagwon with something like 2-7 or 3-9 beats out a good PS anyday.
Only 2 weeks of vacay doesn't seem that bad, and hey, it can help you save money. I'm gonna take a huge vacation at the end of my next contract. I managed to find one of those 3-9 hagwons so then I can really compare the two.
All in all it comes down to the specific person. Some people like PS b/c it's easy. I never really felt like the teachers cared about my class. Some people like hagwons b/c they feel they are actually teaching or they may like waking up late.  |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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So basically this thread restates the common wisdom repeated down through the centuries; hakwon jobs generally blow.
Hakwon jobs are only, and I repeat ONLY, a way to get into the country and settled. The pay is not good, the hours are long, and they will try to take advantage of you any number of ways throughout the term of your contract.
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term.
Many saw this coming years and years ago. It hasn't just leapt up and bit us in the arse. You can still get in and hustle your way up to a few million a month (or 6.1 or so as the F2 holder stated), but you'll be burned out and doing some serious hours. Think about your future. How do you want to be LIVING when you're 35? 45? 55? 99% of the time, you can't balance the way you want to LIVE with hakwon work.
Choice 1: Get to Korea, work hard, pay off debt, leave within 2 years.
Choice 2: Get to Korea, work and go to school, work your way up, retire early.
After almost 20 years here, that's the way I see it. If you don't invest in yourself, you're setting yourself up to get used and abused. |
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grnmle
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
So basically this thread restates the common wisdom repeated down through the centuries; hakwon jobs generally blow.
Hakwon jobs are only, and I repeat ONLY, a way to get into the country and settled. The pay is not good, the hours are long, and they will try to take advantage of you any number of ways throughout the term of your contract.
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term.
Many saw this coming years and years ago. It hasn't just leapt up and bit us in the arse. You can still get in and hustle your way up to a few million a month (or 6.1 or so as the F2 holder stated), but you'll be burned out and doing some serious hours. Think about your future. How do you want to be LIVING when you're 35? 45? 55? 99% of the time, you can't balance the way you want to LIVE with hakwon work.
Choice 1: Get to Korea, work hard, pay off debt, leave within 2 years.
Choice 2: Get to Korea, work and go to school, work your way up, retire early.
After almost 20 years here, that's the way I see it. If you don't invest in yourself, you're setting yourself up to get used and abused. |
Well stated. I worked in Korea for a year at a decent Hagwon. I left at the end of the contract because I wasn't offered a raise (This is just before the bottom fell out, June 2008). The situation has really turned for the worse from everything I've seen since then. But, it has everywhere. So, comparably, this is still not a bad gig. There are no good jobs anywhere. I would still rather be somewhere different than where I grew up. However, my advice for anyone just now considering this path is to wait it out. There are a lot of snakes out there looking to hump you for every Won they can: this thread would be the evidence.
I managed to swing a Eikaiwa gig in Japan the past two years. It was horrible. I got another gig but, in a sweet area. Again, the school was horrible. Any young person with a half a brain got out. I stayed: one doesn't get too many opportunities to live in Kyoto. (I am writing a book about my experience there. I researched the history of temples, gardens, culture as in depth as I possibly could I visited almost every UN heritage site in the country and am working my way to fluency in the language. However I couldn't save money because of the expense of travel and the Osaka area is one of the most expensive in the world. On top of this the company filed for bankruptcy (GEOS) and I was unpaid for a month of work and had all my holidays erased (I put in extra time at camps for vacation days in lieu of pay so I lost about 3 weeks of vacation).
I couldn't get a job to save my life when GEOS collapsed there are literally thousands of people applying for a single, lousy position. A friend offered to pay me for standing outside a train station giving out flyers for his school. He was lucky to be married to a Japanese girl so he didn't have to worry about any Visa issues...I wasn't so lucky and have had to put a great relationship on hold. It's been pretty painful talking over skype the last little while but, it's better than it might've been years ago. I had a few interviews at places I didn't really feel and so went back to the 'rents and have lived in their basement for the last 4 months.
Quite a shot to the ego but, I am not below it. It's good to be around friends and tell stories that most will only ever dream of. Spent the summer back in Canada catching salmon, golfing and writing a book. Being poor is not such a bad thing, if you have great friends.
I am coming back to Korea again with a definite plan. I got a hook up at a hogwan that a few friend's have worked at paying above the typical wage here, though not by much. I know a few others at the school who are long- termers too. The chance of being screwed over is pretty small but, I still know it can happen.
The plan is to differentiate myself by writing and creating during this time. I spent much of the first year here just enjoying my time but, now have wised up.
I am not genuinely looking forward to coming back but, I have friends here and there are few things, looking back, I'd love to get to do. The market here in Canada is terrible. Terrible...BE VERY CAREFUL. Do not jump in and let the chips fall where they may. Don't give up a job with a living wage in your home country to come here unless you are 100% sure you know you can return to it. Do what any smart person is doing now; wait it out, work on differentiating yourself --- that does not mean going further into debt by doing more school. At some point school is for fools. If you are going for a MATESOL you better be dedicated because the industry is going to get even tighter.
Things will turn around but, salaries will not rise at the bottom rung schools again. To many suckers take these contracts. To all that can get by -- Do not feed these terrible schools by offering yourself up. You will lose all your dignity. You have more dignity as a sandwich artist than you do at some of these hagwons.
Good luck out there.
Last edited by grnmle on Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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qcat79
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| Slowmotion wrote: |
| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
This is absurd. PS crap on hagwons.
First low salary? There isn't a big difference in pay.
8 hours? This is comparable to most hagwons. Especially places like CDI that make them come in a few hours early to prep (which they don't get paid for). My friend goes in at about 2 to prep. He teaches from 4-10:30. That's 8.5 hours. He only gets paid for 6.5
Reasons why public schools are better:
-Always get paid on time
-Get breaks and don't have to teach 6+ hours consecutively.
-Get a lunch break
-Get to take naps
-Don't get fired on the 11th month
-Get pension/medical
-Get severance
-Never have to work on weekends
-All holidays off
-Plenty of free time due to things students having to take certain tests. I get so many random days or periods off.
-I've gotten around 8 weeks vacation from my school
-When I do have to desk warm, it was only from 9-12
-My own laptop
-I have the night to myself, meaning I can go on dates or hang out with friends instead of working at night.
-No split shifts.
Honestly I can't see how people can even defend hagwons. |
Reasons why a very few elite short shift afternoon hogwons are better than public schools:
-small classes
-everyone is well over beginner level and you can actually have conversations with your kids
-no kindies: just elem-middle, maybe high school students
-no coteaching/coteacher issues
-great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well.
-make tons of money for less than 8 hours a day; 20-25 teaching hrs.
-go to bed around midnight and get up around 8 or 9 on weekdays
-if you have a good job/boss, you WILL get more than 2 weeks of, so as long as you do your job, you'll probably even be asked to renew and not get scammed out of everything
-plenty of time for learning Korean, getting and online degree, or making more money....getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED, and it's harder to study anything then. It's better to sleep in, work on any of the above things, THEN go to work, and THEN call it a day. My 2 cents.
Now, I'll agree that 90-95% of hogwons suck, whether they're 9-6 kindies or 1-9, 1-10, 2-10, 2-11 afternoon hogwons with 2 hour classes. All the big kindie and afternoon hogwons are for noobs, lets face it. Gotta cut your teeth somewhere. But if you're in Korea, want to network, keep your ear to the ground, talk to a bunch of recruiters and people in your own little social scene, you can get something like 2-7/8 or 3-8/9 and see how awesome a hogwon can be. Alas, those jobs are few and far in between these days. Otuside of Korea, I can only seem to get 9-6 and 1-9/2-10 hogwons, so I'll probably just take my chances with GEPIK again.
On a lighter note, those 12-6 after school programs look sweet.... |
bcj,
there are so many holes in your argument, i don't even know where to begin.
- NOT all kids who go to hagwon are over beginner level. MANY are at beginner levels.
- great curriculum???? how do you know what every hagwon offers in terms of curriculum?? every hagwon i worked at had a $hitty curriculum....and besides, the curriculum is WAY more flexible at a public school.
- if you consider 200,000 won on average a HUGE salary, you apparently have never learned what REAL money is. besides, i'd take a "lower" salary at a public school just so i can get that severance and pension (roughly 4 mill won) at the end of the contract and be guaranteed a full 12 months rather than risk it at a hagwon.
- so, you MUST work at a hagwon to study korean or get an online MA??? really? last time i checked, i know several people who do both at their public school jobs between classes.
- and how can your argument even be considered valid when you openly agree that 95% of the hagwons suck. you're such a joke. again.....i'd rather take my chances at public schools.....for which i've been 3 for 3 and going on 4. thanks. |
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qcat79
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
So basically this thread restates the common wisdom repeated down through the centuries; hakwon jobs generally blow.
Hakwon jobs are only, and I repeat ONLY, a way to get into the country and settled. The pay is not good, the hours are long, and they will try to take advantage of you any number of ways throughout the term of your contract.
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term.
Many saw this coming years and years ago. It hasn't just leapt up and bit us in the arse. You can still get in and hustle your way up to a few million a month (or 6.1 or so as the F2 holder stated), but you'll be burned out and doing some serious hours. Think about your future. How do you want to be LIVING when you're 35? 45? 55? 99% of the time, you can't balance the way you want to LIVE with hakwon work.
Choice 1: Get to Korea, work hard, pay off debt, leave within 2 years.
Choice 2: Get to Korea, work and go to school, work your way up, retire early.
After almost 20 years here, that's the way I see it. If you don't invest in yourself, you're setting yourself up to get used and abused. |
짱! |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| qcat79 wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| Slowmotion wrote: |
| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
This is absurd. PS crap on hagwons.
First low salary? There isn't a big difference in pay.
8 hours? This is comparable to most hagwons. Especially places like CDI that make them come in a few hours early to prep (which they don't get paid for). My friend goes in at about 2 to prep. He teaches from 4-10:30. That's 8.5 hours. He only gets paid for 6.5
Reasons why public schools are better:
-Always get paid on time
-Get breaks and don't have to teach 6+ hours consecutively.
-Get a lunch break
-Get to take naps
-Don't get fired on the 11th month
-Get pension/medical
-Get severance
-Never have to work on weekends
-All holidays off
-Plenty of free time due to things students having to take certain tests. I get so many random days or periods off.
-I've gotten around 8 weeks vacation from my school
-When I do have to desk warm, it was only from 9-12
-My own laptop
-I have the night to myself, meaning I can go on dates or hang out with friends instead of working at night.
-No split shifts.
Honestly I can't see how people can even defend hagwons. |
Reasons why a very few elite short shift afternoon hogwons are better than public schools:
-small classes
-everyone is well over beginner level and you can actually have conversations with your kids
-no kindies: just elem-middle, maybe high school students
-no coteaching/coteacher issues
-great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well.
-make tons of money for less than 8 hours a day; 20-25 teaching hrs.
-go to bed around midnight and get up around 8 or 9 on weekdays
-if you have a good job/boss, you WILL get more than 2 weeks of, so as long as you do your job, you'll probably even be asked to renew and not get scammed out of everything
-plenty of time for learning Korean, getting and online degree, or making more money....getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED, and it's harder to study anything then. It's better to sleep in, work on any of the above things, THEN go to work, and THEN call it a day. My 2 cents.
Now, I'll agree that 90-95% of hogwons suck, whether they're 9-6 kindies or 1-9, 1-10, 2-10, 2-11 afternoon hogwons with 2 hour classes. All the big kindie and afternoon hogwons are for noobs, lets face it. Gotta cut your teeth somewhere. But if you're in Korea, want to network, keep your ear to the ground, talk to a bunch of recruiters and people in your own little social scene, you can get something like 2-7/8 or 3-8/9 and see how awesome a hogwon can be. Alas, those jobs are few and far in between these days. Otuside of Korea, I can only seem to get 9-6 and 1-9/2-10 hogwons, so I'll probably just take my chances with GEPIK again.
On a lighter note, those 12-6 after school programs look sweet.... |
bcj,
there are so many holes in your argument, i don't even know where to begin.
- NOT all kids who go to hagwon are over beginner level. MANY are at beginner levels. -->KINDIES. Things aren't better teaching 1st/2nd graders (30 at a time) at a public school either.
- great curriculum???? how do you know what every hagwon offers in terms of curriculum?? every hagwon i worked at had a $hitty curriculum....and besides, the curriculum is WAY more flexible at a public school. --> Has anyone ever seen the textbooks Korean public school teachers use to teach English? Emailing a hogwon directly and checking it out in person to get a feel for things (class length, books, methods of evaluation, age range, etc) is how you get'er done, son. Some hogwons offer great curriculums...and plenty of public school teachers (the native English speakers) just whip things out of thin air and do the bare minimum, like thats so much better than a great program in place.
- if you consider 200,000 won on average a HUGE salary, you apparently have never learned what REAL money is. besides, i'd take a "lower" salary at a public school just so i can get that severance and pension (roughly 4 mill won) at the end of the contract and be guaranteed a full 12 months rather than risk it at a hagwon. -->EXCEPT you're at a public school 8 hours a day, which means you have to work more than that for the big bucks to roll in. I dont know where you got this figure from. Overtime at most publics is 20,000 an hour, which is not a great deal.
- so, you MUST work at a hagwon to study korean or get an online MA??? really? last time i checked, i know several people who do both at their public school jobs between classes. -->I speak for many. When I get up at 6 or 7 for work, do all this teaching and lesson planning, and come around 5 or 530...guess what buddy, I'm f'in tired. going to bed at 12, sleeping till 8, and then studying something and THEN working is the way to go; so your brain isn't drained. Plenty of middle aged people have trouble going back to school back home because they're working 40 hours a week, and likewise, when they come home, they're tired. That's why in college we went during the day and worked (hopefully PT) during the evening.
- and how can your argument even be considered valid when you openly agree that 95% of the hagwons suck. you're such a joke. again.....i'd rather take my chances at public schools.....for which i've been 3 for 3 and going on 4. thanks. -->If you dont want to do your research, or perhaps if you're not in the country, don't have the right connections, don't want to blast to a bunch of recruiters, then yeah, take a public school. But not everyone enjoys summer/winter camps, desk warming, demo lessons, workshops, orientations, large classes coteaching, getting up at 6 or 7 every morning, working more than 8 hours a day for extra work, no visible progress in your students, teaching with no rewarding feeling from cold coworkers and tons of kids who dont care, on and on....and for those of you with more than 4 weeks off, your one of the lucky few these days. |
3 more things I added:
-No workshops
-No demo lessons
-No orientations and other large, useless sessions and get togethers
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