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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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 Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
| Slowmotion wrote: |
| dongjak wrote: |
| I always though any SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK job was pretty crap. Have to wake up early, be at work for eight hours, and get a low salary. Never understood why anybody would want to work for them. |
This is absurd. PS crap on hagwons.
First low salary? There isn't a big difference in pay.
8 hours? This is comparable to most hagwons. Especially places like CDI that make them come in a few hours early to prep (which they don't get paid for). My friend goes in at about 2 to prep. He teaches from 4-10:30. That's 8.5 hours. He only gets paid for 6.5
Reasons why public schools are better:
-Always get paid on time
-Get breaks and don't have to teach 6+ hours consecutively.
-Get a lunch break
-Get to take naps
-Don't get fired on the 11th month
-Get pension/medical
-Get severance
-Never have to work on weekends
-All holidays off
-Plenty of free time due to things students having to take certain tests. I get so many random days or periods off.
-I've gotten around 8 weeks vacation from my school
-When I do have to desk warm, it was only from 9-12
-My own laptop
-I have the night to myself, meaning I can go on dates or hang out with friends instead of working at night.
-No split shifts.
Honestly I can't see how people can even defend hagwons. |
I think there is a big difference in pay. For a lot of newbies in GEPIK, pay starts out at 2 million. Take away money for taxes, etc, you're down to around 1.7/1.8.
Then for the first 3 months, they take out 300,000 won. My first 3 paychecks were like 1.4/1.5.
A hagwon may only take out a deposit once, and most good ones start at 2.2/2.3.
As for vacation, like a lot of other people said, you got a lucky deal. My school followed the book to the letter and I only got 4 weeks of vacation like in the contract. I had to deskwarm all day and no 9-12.
I've even heard of some public schools asking you on your interview, if you would be willing to come in on a Saturday every now and then (a school I interviewed for did).
Now you are spot on about severance, pension, not getting fired in the 11th month etc. And those random days off were nice.
I think hagwons get more of a bad rep because there are way more of them than PS, thus more horror stories, but there are good hagwons out there, and from what I've heard, a good hagwon with something like 2-7 or 3-9 beats out a good PS anyday.
Only 2 weeks of vacay doesn't seem that bad, and hey, it can help you save money. I'm gonna take a huge vacation at the end of my next contract. I managed to find one of those 3-9 hagwons so then I can really compare the two.
All in all it comes down to the specific person. Some people like PS b/c it's easy. I never really felt like the teachers cared about my class. Some people like hagwons b/c they feel they are actually teaching or they may like waking up late.  |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term. |
That's all good, but I'd say getting an F visa is more important. So invest in getting married to a Korean. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't agree. I could get an F2 if I wanted to but have never felt the need. You can do just as well on an E2 with the right experience and qualifications |
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Catfisher
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term. |
That's all good, but I'd say getting an F visa is more important. So invest in getting married to a Korean. |
Yes, but also in order to get that F-2, you and your wife must have combined assets of 100,000,000 won, or approx. $90,000 USD. Not something a lot of E-2s happen to have lying around. |
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oxfordstu
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Location: Bangkok
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
Reasons why a very few elite short shift afternoon hogwons are better than public schools:
-small classes
-everyone is well over beginner level and you can actually have conversations with your kids
-no kindies: just elem-middle, maybe high school students
-no coteaching/coteacher issues
-great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well.
-make tons of money for less than 8 hours a day; 20-25 teaching hrs.
-go to bed around midnight and get up around 8 or 9 on weekdays
-if you have a good job/boss, you WILL get more than 2 weeks of, so as long as you do your job, you'll probably even be asked to renew and not get scammed out of everything
-No workshops
-No demo lessons
-No orientations and other large, useless sessions and get togethers
-plenty of time for learning Korean, getting and online degree, or making more money....getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED, and it's harder to study anything then. It's better to sleep in, work on any of the above things, THEN go to work, and THEN call it a day. My 2 cents.
w
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You're joking, right? No hagwon is this good. The main problem I had with the hagwon was that I felt I had zero time to myself. I worked 2-9:30 with about 2 weeks off the entire year. I also found that working at a hagwon made it virtually impossible to do privates. At a PS, you're gone at 4:30 and can have the rest of the day for privates, which is where the real money is.
Everyone is "well over beginner level?" Hahahaha - very funny. I didn't teach above beginner level until about my 4th class of the day. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders are still in that beginner phase - daily conversation, phonics, patterns.
| Quote: |
| getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED |
depends on you, doesn't it? I used to go to the gym a few times a week after work, or go home and play video games, read, study, whatever. The time was mine - something I didn't have a lot of when I worked at a hagwon.
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| great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well. |
Again, you're dreaming here. The curriculum was just okayyyyy - mostly books that the owners liked to overcharge the students for. They even made their own curriculum for the daily conversation and pattern classes. Freedom to add to it? I doubt any hagwon owner would let a waygook add to their precious money-making scheme.
I know every hagwon is different (okay, maybe not), but mine were doing the standard practices so they could milk us foreigners of our time and make themselves rich every chance they got. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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The F visa is the ticket of not working FT jobs with poor pay/hour. With F2 you can work at places that can't/won't sponsor E2s, and easily find dollars/hour.
So you can make pretty good money, say 4 Mil per month, while working less hours than most E2 jobs paying 2.3.
As the quality of full-time jobs is going down, working per hour PT is still possible and you're free from the declining job market that the influx of e2 have wrought on FT job offers. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| oxfordstu wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
Reasons why a very few elite short shift afternoon hogwons are better than public schools:
-small classes
-everyone is well over beginner level and you can actually have conversations with your kids
-no kindies: just elem-middle, maybe high school students
-no coteaching/coteacher issues
-great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well.
-make tons of money for less than 8 hours a day; 20-25 teaching hrs.
-go to bed around midnight and get up around 8 or 9 on weekdays
-if you have a good job/boss, you WILL get more than 2 weeks of, so as long as you do your job, you'll probably even be asked to renew and not get scammed out of everything
-No workshops
-No demo lessons
-No orientations and other large, useless sessions and get togethers
-plenty of time for learning Korean, getting and online degree, or making more money....getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED, and it's harder to study anything then. It's better to sleep in, work on any of the above things, THEN go to work, and THEN call it a day. My 2 cents.
w
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You're joking, right? No hagwon is this good. The main problem I had with the hagwon was that I felt I had zero time to myself. I worked 2-9:30 with about 2 weeks off the entire year. I also found that working at a hagwon made it virtually impossible to do privates. At a PS, you're gone at 4:30 and can have the rest of the day for privates, which is where the real money is.
Everyone is "well over beginner level?" Hahahaha - very funny. I didn't teach above beginner level until about my 4th class of the day. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders are still in that beginner phase - daily conversation, phonics, patterns.
| Quote: |
| getting up at 6 or 7 and working until 5 and then going home makes you feel TIRED |
depends on you, doesn't it? I used to go to the gym a few times a week after work, or go home and play video games, read, study, whatever. The time was mine - something I didn't have a lot of when I worked at a hagwon.
| Quote: |
| great curriculum and freedom to add to it, as well. |
Again, you're dreaming here. The curriculum was just okayyyyy - mostly books that the owners liked to overcharge the students for. They even made their own curriculum for the daily conversation and pattern classes. Freedom to add to it? I doubt any hagwon owner would let a waygook add to their precious money-making scheme.
I know every hagwon is different (okay, maybe not), but mine were doing the standard practices so they could milk us foreigners of our time and make themselves rich every chance they got. |
Seems to me you only had one hogwon, and judging by the hours it was a BCM or YBM; 2-930 is not 2-8, or 2-7 for that matter, and yes, those gigs do exist. Yes you can do privates after being at a public school for eight long hours. But then you'll have to work 50 hours a week for what others can do in 30.
The time off for most public schools is down to just 4 weeks....
I know a guy in Jamsil on an E-2 who only works about 5-10pm, and only 20 hrs of teaching for about 3.0, has a great job and boss. Again, those gigs are hard to get. I think he teaches mostly middle school aged.
I need my sleep, but have always been a night owl, which is why I never become a high school teacher, tradesman, or soldier back in the states. I would rather study during the late morning Korean/online degree or whatever, and work in the afternoons and evenings.
Again, you had a "standard" hogwon and experience, not a good one. All the major kindies and all the major afternoon hogwon chains that are 8 hrs long or more (like yours, minus 30 min) kind of do the whole cookie cutter thing with books, curriculum and what have you, but the ma and pa places hook you up.
Know before you go. Research, research, research. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Catfisher wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term. |
That's all good, but I'd say getting an F visa is more important. So invest in getting married to a Korean. |
Yes, but also in order to get that F-2, you and your wife must have combined assets of 100,000,000 won, or approx. $90,000 USD. Not something a lot of E-2s happen to have lying around. |
A F-2 visa is a residence visa which you can get by being married to a local. You are thinking about an investor visa which is a different visa altogether. |
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oxfordstu
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Location: Bangkok
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
Seems to me you only had one hogwon, and judging by the hours it was a BCM or YBM; 2-930 is not 2-8, or 2-7 for that matter, and yes, those gigs do exist. Yes you can do privates after being at a public school for eight long hours. But then you'll have to work 50 hours a week for what others can do in 30.
The time off for most public schools is down to just 4 weeks....
I know a guy in Jamsil on an E-2 who only works about 5-10pm, and only 20 hrs of teaching for about 3.0, has a great job and boss. Again, those gigs are hard to get. I think he teaches mostly middle school aged.
I need my sleep, but have always been a night owl, which is why I never become a high school teacher, tradesman, or soldier back in the states. I would rather study during the late morning Korean/online degree or whatever, and work in the afternoons and evenings.
Again, you had a "standard" hogwon and experience, not a good one. All the major kindies and all the major afternoon hogwon chains that are 8 hrs long or more (like yours, minus 30 min) kind of do the whole cookie cutter thing with books, curriculum and what have you, but the ma and pa places hook you up.
Know before you go. Research, research, research. |
You need your sleep? Then don't be a teacher. For most of us, this job requires early mornings. In the US I would regularly get up at 5:30 am to prep and get to work to be ready for my 7:30 class.
There are good hagwons. I'm sure there are. There are just a hell of a lot more bad ones, and even if you do your research, good hogwans can always turn into bad ones.
The PS vacation depends a lot on your principal. If you're a jerk who always whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during your downtime, then chances are you are going to get the shaft when it comes to vacation. |
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hubbahubba
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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[quote="oxfordstu"]
..snip
You need your sleep? Then don't be a teacher. For most of us, this job requires early mornings. In the US I would regularly get up at 5:30 am to prep and get to work to be ready for my 7:30 class.
[/quo
Wow, rather harsh I'd say. I used to get up early in merica' too. One of the reasons I'm here. Do you get up and prep at 5:30 am here in Korea? Just curious. |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:36 am Post subject: |
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I wanna know why people who aren't in the best situations in hagwons feel the need to defend it, especially against public schools. They keep defending it knowing it's not the best job or best conditions, that is until they get jipped.
But seriously why? Insecurity? Pride? |
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Catfisher
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Catfisher wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term. |
That's all good, but I'd say getting an F visa is more important. So invest in getting married to a Korean. |
Yes, but also in order to get that F-2, you and your wife must have combined assets of 100,000,000 won, or approx. $90,000 USD. Not something a lot of E-2s happen to have lying around. |
A F-2 visa is a residence visa which you can get by being married to a local. You are thinking about an investor visa which is a different visa altogether. |
No, you have to prove that you have that money to get an F2. My friend and his wife had to show a deed to an apartment they had worth $150,000 USD. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Grossly exaggerated figure about the F2.
It's 30million.
I just got mine 3 months ago.
And, your Kspouses' parents can even sign the document to sponsor you financially. If you are from Canada/US/Australia etc...they don't even care about the money half the time. If you are from China, Nigeria, or the Philippines they want to see that 30,000,000.
Let's not start throwing out random numbers as fact. Your friends may very well have shown their deed to their 150mil apartment as evidence. However, they were showing 120million more than was necessary. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
I wanna know why people who aren't in the best situations in hagwons feel the need to defend it, especially against public schools. They keep defending it knowing it's not the best job or best conditions, that is until they get jipped.
But seriously why? Insecurity? Pride? |
Not trying to start a fight here but I have always felt the same way about public schools. A couple of people in my Korean class are public school teachers and they are very proud of it. I never understood why. |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| oxfordstu wrote: |
| If you're a jerk who always whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during your downtime, then chances are you are going to get the shaft when it comes to vacation. |
Wrong. Being a "good teacher" and getting oodles of vacation time in PS are not necessarily correlated, as has been shown many many times before. |
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