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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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 Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
| oxfordstu wrote: |
| If you're a jerk who always whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during your downtime, then chances are you are going to get the shaft when it comes to vacation. |
Wrong. Being a "good teacher" and getting oodles of vacation time in PS are not necessarily correlated, as has been shown many many times before. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| oxfordstu wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
Seems to me you only had one hogwon, and judging by the hours it was a BCM or YBM; 2-930 is not 2-8, or 2-7 for that matter, and yes, those gigs do exist. Yes you can do privates after being at a public school for eight long hours. But then you'll have to work 50 hours a week for what others can do in 30.
The time off for most public schools is down to just 4 weeks....
I know a guy in Jamsil on an E-2 who only works about 5-10pm, and only 20 hrs of teaching for about 3.0, has a great job and boss. Again, those gigs are hard to get. I think he teaches mostly middle school aged.
I need my sleep, but have always been a night owl, which is why I never become a high school teacher, tradesman, or soldier back in the states. I would rather study during the late morning Korean/online degree or whatever, and work in the afternoons and evenings.
Again, you had a "standard" hogwon and experience, not a good one. All the major kindies and all the major afternoon hogwon chains that are 8 hrs long or more (like yours, minus 30 min) kind of do the whole cookie cutter thing with books, curriculum and what have you, but the ma and pa places hook you up.
Know before you go. Research, research, research. |
You need your sleep? Then don't be a teacher. For most of us, this job requires early mornings. In the US I would regularly get up at 5:30 am to prep and get to work to be ready for my 7:30 class.
There are good hagwons. I'm sure there are. There are just a hell of a lot more bad ones, and even if you do your research, good hogwans can always turn into bad ones.
The PS vacation depends a lot on your principal. If you're a jerk who always whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during your downtime, then chances are you are going to get the shaft when it comes to vacation. |
You mean don't be a teacher in the States... certainly at a high school. I believe you start teaching around 830 at an elementary school.
I did my lesson planning in between classes and weekends, and stayed several weeks ahead, mind you. I used those 8 hours a day and was never that guy that had to whip something up Sunday night or Monday morning.
The last two public schools I had in Korea did not give me any real time off, which is one of the primary reasons I did not renew with either of them. I certainly wasn't a jerk who whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during my downtime.
All I know is going to be around 11 and getting up at 630 made me feel like I could use another hour or two of sleep. I'd try 10 sometimes, but just barely fely rested.
I'll agree with you about that last comment of hogwons....with the E-2 influx, almost every hogwon is 8 hours long, minimum, for about 2.1-2.2. But anyone lucky enough to get a great deal should take.
As a licensed teacher, teaching at a public school in Korea must be frustrating for you. Sharing a class with another teacher and teaching 30 kids in a class who mostly and usually don't want to learn much or say much, no matter how hard you try....kind of like being a French or Spanish teacher in the States, I suppose.
Thought I'd edit and add:
I have never seen the ESL market in South Korea like this.
Here�s a list of jobs I can�t get:
1st choice: University in Seoul, Gyeonggi, Busan or Gwangju (Because I don�t have an MA, previous college teaching experience, and I�m not in the country)
2nd choice: Independent public school in Seoul, Gyeonggi or Busan with tons of time off
3rd choice: After school program in Seoul, Gyeonggi or Busan that�s 12-6 for full time pay (Most want people already in the country with all necessary docs or a letter of release with an E-2, though of course they go for mostly F-2 visa holders)
4th choice: Short shift afternoon hogwon that�s 2-8 or 3-9 in Seoul, Gyeonggi or Busan�six hours flat for full time pay
5th choice: GEPIK public school in Gyeonggi-do; in the Bundang area half an hour south of Gangnam, Seoul where I once worked. Probably the best place in all of Gyeonggi all around Seoul.
I should point out that I do not apply to adult hogwons as I do not like working at 6 or 7 am in the morning, and avoid English Villages like the plague because they�re like working for Disney or some theme park.
Lastly, the big EPIK/SMOE intake twice a year seems to cater to recent college graduates, and just like SMOE, it appears you have no control where you�ll end up with EPIK�you could request Daejeon and get something in the middle of the Chungnam province, and you have no control over the individual school you�ll get stuck with, as well. Needless to say I avoid the big intake, as well�they have plenty of resumes, anyway.
I suppose there are rural public schools scattered here and there, but having worked a year in Busan and another year in Seoul, I could never work in the country.
So what CAN I get, you ask? In short, one of a few things:
1) Kindie hogwons from 9-6 (or later) with minimum wage, time off, benefits (if any, since many don�t even give pension and insurance like the one I used to work at). Those gigs have a turnover rate like food service, anyway, because they�re just not pleasant places to work at. There are plenty of jobs like this in Seoul and all over Korea.
2) Long shift afternoon hogwons, such as 12-9, 1-9, 2-10, 2-11, etc. It seems very hard these days to get an afternoon hogwon less than 8 hours long and for a high wage, especially in Seoul, Busan or even Gyeonggi. Some hogwons advertise 2-830, but they don�t pay you from 2-4 for �prep time,� (even though there�s no classes) and then make you stay until 10 or later for overtime. Some 2-9 hogwons actually make you work until 10 2-3 nights a week; so again, almost everything works out to 8 hours. Another major chain franchise is scheduled from 130-830, but they�re infamous for underpaid overtime forced onto you and a poor curriculum, amongst other problems. The 2-930 hogwons are just shy of 8 hours, as well. With the influx of E-2�s it�s so hard to get a great deal with afternoon hogwons now, just as it seems hard to get a ton of time off with most public schools and many colleges these days. Most of these jobs are anywhere but Seoul.
3) Rural public schools, but I just don�t want to be in the country. I could try for the EPIK/SMOE big intake thing, but I�d rather not. I could try for some an English Village or adult hogwon, but like stated earlier, pass on that, too.
The apostilled paper trail for a visa has become ridiculous, the exchange rate for us Americans hasn�t been awesome in a long time, and I see in so many ways how public schools, hogwons, and colleges have come downhill within the last 4 years. This place probably reached its peak overall market in 2007 or maybe 2008.
Guess I don�t have it in me to go back, when I can�t seem to get my 5th choice type of job in 2nd or 3rd choice type location. Might have to tough it out stateside or try another country. Or just fly to Korea with docs in hand and call up a bunch of after school program recruiters once I land
Last edited by bcjinseoul on Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Catfisher wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term. |
That's all good, but I'd say getting an F visa is more important. So invest in getting married to a Korean. |
Yes, but also in order to get that F-2, you and your wife must have combined assets of 100,000,000 won, or approx. $90,000 USD. Not something a lot of E-2s happen to have lying around. |
My F-2-1 certainly didn't require this. It didn't even require the 30 million figure that is more commonly cited. The fellow spent about 1 minute looking over the form we filled out and glanced at our marriage certificate before giving me my visa. It was great. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Catfisher wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
The lesson? If you want to work long-term in ESL, whether in Korea or elsewhere, invest in yourself. You need to get your MA, your CELTA, your DELTA, and whatever else makes you more competitive for real jobs. You need to build a salary history at organizations with names that don't make everyone chuckle. In short, you need to start angling for university positions or, if you're more inclinded toward the secondary education market, foreign schools. Period. Everything else is a waste of your time over the long term. |
That's all good, but I'd say getting an F visa is more important. So invest in getting married to a Korean. |
Yes, but also in order to get that F-2, you and your wife must have combined assets of 100,000,000 won, or approx. $90,000 USD. Not something a lot of E-2s happen to have lying around. |
My F-2-1 certainly didn't require this. It didn't even require the 30 million figure that is more commonly cited. The fellow spent about 1 minute looking over the form we filled out and glanced at our marriage certificate before giving me my visa. It was great. |
That is the norm. If you are employed they won't give you a hard time at all. My wife and I were between jobs so they asked for proof of the 30,000,000. I think the only reason why it would be 90,000,000 is if dependents are involved. I know in America, that the more people you are supporting the more money you need to get a permanent resident card. |
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the ireland
Joined: 11 May 2008
Location: korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Typical Dave's thread has totally branched off topic.
Just about the Hagwon thing. I know there are a lot of dodge ones and some even worse thn dodgy but people rarely publicise the good ones. I'm always more than happy to big up my school.
I have a great hagwon, my boss, co-teachers and principal are all awesome to me.
I never worry about getting paid on time, whether or not I'm going to get fired or if my boss has been paying my insurance etc. He gave us all our insurance cards, gives us the statements proving that pension and tax have been paid and puts our wages in our accounts before the due date if it falls over the weekend.
I have also been given the school's credit card to go for dinner with some of the other foreign teachers. I have the credit card details to allow me to book my flights around asia and then back home again for when my contract finished.
I have a great 2 bed apartment about 8-10 mins walk to school. If there is any problems with anything it gets sorted straight away.
We all get bonuses at chuseok and at seolnal just for being employed there. we get taken out for dinner regularly (indian restaurant last week for example). The school summer and winter classes give us and extra payment not forced upon us like some schools)
I teach from 3:45-9:00 on m/w/f and 3:30-7:10 on tue / thurs. I can get up, go for a run, relax and have some food before work and still relax and watch tv at night after work.
A lot of teacher re-sign for this school. In fact, I only know of one who decided to move to another school after the year was up (anyone else who left went travelling or back home). The person who left wanted to move closer to seoul and our school helped sort out a signover of some sort so a new visa process would not be needed.
Yes, in public schools you are guaranteed your payment, but I am too. I know my boss won;t screw me over. Although from what I've heard from other schools I would be very nervous about leaving my hagwon job for another one, in fact I don't think I would like to work for any other hagwon or public school but the one I am currently at.
I'm smart enough to know I got lucky. Lots of hagwons are cr*p but when you've got a good one then life is great. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Amen. |
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qcat79
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| oxfordstu wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
Seems to me you only had one hogwon, and judging by the hours it was a BCM or YBM; 2-930 is not 2-8, or 2-7 for that matter, and yes, those gigs do exist. Yes you can do privates after being at a public school for eight long hours. But then you'll have to work 50 hours a week for what others can do in 30.
The time off for most public schools is down to just 4 weeks....
I know a guy in Jamsil on an E-2 who only works about 5-10pm, and only 20 hrs of teaching for about 3.0, has a great job and boss. Again, those gigs are hard to get. I think he teaches mostly middle school aged.
I need my sleep, but have always been a night owl, which is why I never become a high school teacher, tradesman, or soldier back in the states. I would rather study during the late morning Korean/online degree or whatever, and work in the afternoons and evenings.
Again, you had a "standard" hogwon and experience, not a good one. All the major kindies and all the major afternoon hogwon chains that are 8 hrs long or more (like yours, minus 30 min) kind of do the whole cookie cutter thing with books, curriculum and what have you, but the ma and pa places hook you up.
Know before you go. Research, research, research. |
You need your sleep? Then don't be a teacher. For most of us, this job requires early mornings. In the US I would regularly get up at 5:30 am to prep and get to work to be ready for my 7:30 class.
There are good hagwons. I'm sure there are. There are just a hell of a lot more bad ones, and even if you do your research, good hogwans can always turn into bad ones.
The PS vacation depends a lot on your principal. If you're a jerk who always whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during your downtime, then chances are you are going to get the shaft when it comes to vacation. |
You mean don't be a teacher in the States... certainly at a high school. I believe you start teaching around 830 at an elementary school.
I did my lesson planning in between classes and weekends, and stayed several weeks ahead, mind you. I used those 8 hours a day and was never that guy that had to whip something up Sunday night or Monday morning.
The last two public schools I had in Korea did not give me any real time off, which is one of the primary reasons I did not renew with either of them. I certainly wasn't a jerk who whines and does as little as possible while watching movies during my downtime.
All I know is going to be around 11 and getting up at 630 made me feel like I could use another hour or two of sleep. I'd try 10 sometimes, but just barely fely rested.
I'll agree with you about that last comment of hogwons....with the E-2 influx, almost every hogwon is 8 hours long, minimum, for about 2.1-2.2. But anyone lucky enough to get a great deal should take.
As a licensed teacher, teaching at a public school in Korea must be frustrating for you. Sharing a class with another teacher and teaching 30 kids in a class who mostly and usually don't want to learn much or say much, no matter how hard you try....kind of like being a French or Spanish teacher in the States, I suppose.
Thought I'd edit and add:
I have never seen the ESL market in South Korea like this.
Here�s a list of jobs I can�t get:
1st choice: University in Seoul, Gyeonggi, Busan or Gwangju (Because I don�t have an MA, previous college teaching experience, and I�m not in the country)
2nd choice: Independent public school in Seoul, Gyeonggi or Busan with tons of time off
3rd choice: After school program in Seoul, Gyeonggi or Busan that�s 12-6 for full time pay (Most want people already in the country with all necessary docs or a letter of release with an E-2, though of course they go for mostly F-2 visa holders)
4th choice: Short shift afternoon hogwon that�s 2-8 or 3-9 in Seoul, Gyeonggi or Busan�six hours flat for full time pay
5th choice: GEPIK public school in Gyeonggi-do; in the Bundang area half an hour south of Gangnam, Seoul where I once worked. Probably the best place in all of Gyeonggi all around Seoul.
I should point out that I do not apply to adult hogwons as I do not like working at 6 or 7 am in the morning, and avoid English Villages like the plague because they�re like working for Disney or some theme park.
Lastly, the big EPIK/SMOE intake twice a year seems to cater to recent college graduates, and just like SMOE, it appears you have no control where you�ll end up with EPIK�you could request Daejeon and get something in the middle of the Chungnam province, and you have no control over the individual school you�ll get stuck with, as well. Needless to say I avoid the big intake, as well�they have plenty of resumes, anyway.
I suppose there are rural public schools scattered here and there, but having worked a year in Busan and another year in Seoul, I could never work in the country.
So what CAN I get, you ask? In short, one of a few things:
1) Kindie hogwons from 9-6 (or later) with minimum wage, time off, benefits (if any, since many don�t even give pension and insurance like the one I used to work at). Those gigs have a turnover rate like food service, anyway, because they�re just not pleasant places to work at. There are plenty of jobs like this in Seoul and all over Korea.
2) Long shift afternoon hogwons, such as 12-9, 1-9, 2-10, 2-11, etc. It seems very hard these days to get an afternoon hogwon less than 8 hours long and for a high wage, especially in Seoul, Busan or even Gyeonggi. Some hogwons advertise 2-830, but they don�t pay you from 2-4 for �prep time,� (even though there�s no classes) and then make you stay until 10 or later for overtime. Some 2-9 hogwons actually make you work until 10 2-3 nights a week; so again, almost everything works out to 8 hours. Another major chain franchise is scheduled from 130-830, but they�re infamous for underpaid overtime forced onto you and a poor curriculum, amongst other problems. The 2-930 hogwons are just shy of 8 hours, as well. With the influx of E-2�s it�s so hard to get a great deal with afternoon hogwons now, just as it seems hard to get a ton of time off with most public schools and many colleges these days. Most of these jobs are anywhere but Seoul.
3) Rural public schools, but I just don�t want to be in the country. I could try for the EPIK/SMOE big intake thing, but I�d rather not. I could try for some an English Village or adult hogwon, but like stated earlier, pass on that, too.
The apostilled paper trail for a visa has become ridiculous, the exchange rate for us Americans hasn�t been awesome in a long time, and I see in so many ways how public schools, hogwons, and colleges have come downhill within the last 4 years. This place probably reached its peak overall market in 2007 or maybe 2008.
Guess I don�t have it in me to go back, when I can�t seem to get my 5th choice type of job in 2nd or 3rd choice type location. Might have to tough it out stateside or try another country. Or just fly to Korea with docs in hand and call up a bunch of after school program recruiters once I land |
so smartguy,
what's on your plate if you're not going to take kindie/long-shift hagwons or rural public schools?
work at some seafood restaurant in the states? go to china for $700 a month? go cut down trees in canada? |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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^
Nothing like having a "friend" you know in real life heckle you on eslcafe...
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