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Artris
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: Grammar help: can you move the subject of an infinitive |
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It took 7 years {for them to cross Siberia}.
It took 7 years {to cross Siberia for them}.
Are both correct, or only the first? My feeling is that moving [for them] to the end of the sentence has a different meaning but I can't think of a good example to express this.
Honestly when it comes to Grammar I am rather useless. Still, I am posting here for help knowing that maybe one out of every three posters are going to rip me to shreds.
That is fine. Anyways my thoughts on the sentence:
{for them to cross Siberia} is an infinitive clause with {for them} as the subject therefore we can't move {for them} to the end of the clause. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Putting it at the end is ambiguous, since we follow a SVO order.
It took 7 years for John to cross Siberia for the gold.
It took 7 years for John to cross Siberia.
It took John 7 years to cross Siberia.
Which do you use more frequently/often?
This is my guideline (fre, quent, ly) 3, (of, ten) 2. I use "often" more often. Easier to say shorter words and sentences. |
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Artris
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
Putting it at the end is ambiguous, since we follow a SVO order.
It took 7 years for John to cross Siberia for the gold.
It took 7 years for John to cross Siberia.
It took John 7 years to cross Siberia.
Which do you use more frequently/often?
This is my guideline (fre, quent, ly) 3, (of, ten) 2. I use "often" more often. Easier to say shorter words and sentences. |
Excellent. I was trying to think of an example of why we wouldn't put 'for them' at the end and you hit it on the head. "It took 7 years for John to cross Siberia for the gold." Thanks for the help. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Grammar help: can you move the subject of an infinitive |
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| Artris wrote: |
It took 7 years {for them to cross Siberia}.
It took 7 years {to cross Siberia for them}.
Are both correct, or only the first? My feeling is that moving [for them] to the end of the sentence has a different meaning but I can't think of a good example to express this. |
Both are correct, though changing the position of for them changes the focus of the sentence.
(1) It took seven years for them to cross Siberia.
[1] Focus on seven years, as in, "Wow, it took seven years for them to cross Siberia!"
(2) It took seven years to cross Siberia for them.
[2] Focus on for them, as in, "It took seven years to cross Siberia for them, but it took others nine years."
You could also say,
(3) For them, it took seven year to cross Siberia.
[3) For them is topicalized.
(4) It took them seven years to cross Siberia.
[4] Declarative sentence. |
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