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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| Surprise surprise, Jews are good at making money. And this is pawned off as evidence of intelligence, rather than greed. If you want to know how Jews customarily obtain power over Gentiles, as well as read a masterful dissection of the Jewish character, I direct you to Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice. |
This has to be a joke. |
Why would it be a joke. Shylock is a great character.
Salerio: Why, I am sure, if he forfeit thou wilt not take his flesh: what's that good for?
Shylock: To bait fish withal: if it will feed nothing else, it will feed my revenge.
This is the argument Jews and their hosts have been having for a very long time. Jews behave in ways that the host finds morally abhorrent and exploitative and the Jews says "we're just smart". It is the same discussion that was held everywhere.
H: "Stop ripping us off" J: "Buyer beware"
H: "The state needs to stop you" A:"Individual liberty"
H: "Get the fu&k out. Now". J: "Everybody does that, and it isn't our fault"
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Nepotism. Competency is not a necessary condition to dominate. This is obvious, but we're dancing. The IT department at my firm is now entirely Indian (and probably all blood relatives). We hired one guy and he aggressively leaned on HR for a good 'friend'. Then the two leaned on HR for a third, and then the three for a 4th etc. This is exactly what happens.
http://www.amazon.com/Betrayal-Life-Lies-Bernie-Madoff/dp/B003B652XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1279479328&sr=1-1
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| The Jewish world was very tight and highly networked. � Everything was done through �the phone call�. My brother wanted to go into retailing, so a call was made to Mr. Temona on the board of Lerners. I wanted to transfer to NYU and live in one dorm: a call was made to Professor Levine. |
Jews circle the wagons. And then when they rise into an institution, it is turned into something for the Jews. Anthropology was turned into activism by Boas, psychology by Freud (who only studied Jews and applied their neurotic behavior - and his own desire to bang his mom - to non-Jewish society), social research into anti-western propaganda by the Frankfurt School.
Catman wants to be included too (if you want to be part of the big boys discussions you have to contribute something other than):
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| Majority of Bolsheviks were non-Jews. |
No. Not among anybody who had power. Churchill said the only non-Jews was Lenin, who turned out to be Jewish.
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| Please cite me where Putin has mentioned anything about this "Jewish Plot". |
Why would he come out and say it? He took back the stolen loot. Oh, then the Jews cried "democracy and human rights!!" (a strategy) and tried a Soros color revolution. Garry Kasparov went on all the Jewish programs all the world over, crying about Putin being a bad man. Not crying about 6 Jews who owned everything, but the man who was taking the wealth back. Taking back stolen wealth from Jews is against democracy and human rights.
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| Glad your true colors are showing. |
Interesting. Now you're able to see ethnocentrism. My "true colors" have never been hidden.
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| I don't envy your position. You're stuck trying to explain why you feel Jews totally dominate your people while also trying to avoid any admission that Jews obtained that position through competency. |
Do you remember Matt Taibbi's description of Goldman Sachs? "A vampire squid relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money". Big Jews went nuts over that, because Jews have been associated with vampires (and vampire squids) before. It is amusing that the vampire squid was what he came up with. The consistency of the description of Jewish behavior, especially coming from Taibbi who is not hostile to Jews (well, he doesn't say it) is incredible. It's been the same for thousands of years. It all comes down to usury. The money is thrown around the society to ensure the state doesn't stop their behavior and the 98% is left to simmer.
Jews are a smart group, no doubt. So are Finns and Koreans and Chinese. Steve Sailer:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2010/12/pisa-scores-for-shanghai.html
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| Having seen the National Merit Semifinalist names for 2009 in California, where there was a single Cohen and 49 Wangs among the honorees |
The Chinese are 1% of the American population. So I guess the Fed will be entirely Chinese (and SEC, FINRA, AICPA etc) when the magical 2% is hit.
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Whats most odd is that the only post of mine that has been deleted by the mods is the one where I said I wasn't going to discuss this topic anymore b/c it is disruptive to the overall culture of the CE forum. I'll reiterate that. Fox go ahead and reply and we'll be done with it. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| Surprise surprise, Jews are good at making money. And this is pawned off as evidence of intelligence, rather than greed. If you want to know how Jews customarily obtain power over Gentiles, as well as read a masterful dissection of the Jewish character, I direct you to Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice. |
This has to be a joke. |
That play is pure truth. Don't misunderstand: I mean including its castigation of Christian sins and its sometimes deeply sympathetic Shylock. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: |
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No. Not among anybody who had power. Churchill said the only non-Jews was Lenin, who turned out to be Jewish. |
So Lenin and Stalin don't count all of a sudden?
I've had this conversation with White Nationalists many times. Try and find me something from the now opened Soviet archvies proving that the Soviet Union was a Jewish enterprise.
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| Why would he come out and say it? |
So Putin actually believe there was a Jewish plot to destroy Russia but he just hasn't come out and said it? Is that about right?
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| Whats most odd is that the only post of mine that has been deleted by the mods is the one where I said I wasn't going to discuss this topic anymore b/c it is disruptive to the overall culture of the CE forum. I'll reiterate that. Fox go ahead and reply and we'll be done with it. |
Not surprising. For example if I posted about eugenics and African-Americans it would be deleted as well. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| So Lenin and Stalin don't count all of a sudden? |
Lenin's father was a Jew. Lenin spoke Yiddish as his first language. He married a Jew as well. Stalin took power of a system that was built by Jews. The system under Stalin was administered by Jews - entirely - until he Russianized it. This process of returning Russia to ethnic Russians gave us 1) neo-cons and 2) the intense hatred for Russia we see among neo-cons.
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| I've had this conversation with White Nationalists many times. |
That's nice. If that's the case, why don't you know anything about it?
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| Try and find me something from the now opened Soviet archvies proving that the Soviet Union was a Jewish enterprise. |
Done. I'll go learn Russian, read them and get back to you. Until then, I'll post Churchill again:
http://tinyurl.com/35kmjsz
Winston Churchill:
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Terrorist Jews
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.
The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing. |
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| So Putin actually believe there was a Jewish plot to destroy Russia but he just hasn't come out and said it? Is that about right? |
Yes. Summers and others through the various multi-nats turned the Russian economy over to their co-ethnics. Only a fool would think that a coincidence. Putin is in the process of taking it back. The ethnic conflict is obvious, but not stated. Putin is returning Russia to her history:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/world/europe/24church.html?pagewanted=all
By CLIFFORD J. LEVY
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| This close alliance between the government and the Russian Orthodox Church has become a defining characteristic of Mr. Putin�s tenure, a mutually reinforcing choreography that is usually described here as working �in symphony.� |
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| Whats most odd is that the only post of mine that has been deleted by the mods is the one where I said I wasn't going to discuss this topic anymore b/c it is disruptive to the overall culture of the CE forum. I'll reiterate that. Fox go ahead and reply and we'll be done with it. |
Not surprising. For example if I posted about eugenics and African-Americans it would be deleted as well. |
I don't know if you're able to read. The only post that was deleted had nothing to do with the topic but rather my description of the topic as being disruptive.
I'm going to ignore you now. I don't find your contributions to be meaningful. Never evidence or documentation. Merely assertions. The same ones over and over. It's obnoxious. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
The "obsession" with the Holocaust are some movies from a war in which the US took part in. There are more World War 2 movies than any other war. Movies dealing with Arab stereotypes and Christian injusitices have been produced/directed by non-Jews. James Cameron and Ridley Scott aren't Jewish by my recollection |
Men like James Cameron work under the same mistaken beliefs as yourself. I assume you're not Jewish, yet if you were to direct a movie, it would likely contain all the same PC, white guilt, multicultural and Cultural Marxist messages as basically every other Hollywood movie.
| Catman wrote: |
How exactly have the Jewish Americans benefited from Hollywood? How has Israel benfited from Hollywood? I need specific examples please. |
Jews like Marx, Lucaks, Freud, and Horkheimer never made any secret that the great enemy (read: of the Jews) was Traditional Western Civilization. The modern variant of leftist ideology, known as Political Correctness, was formed by them and other Jews. (This although the general spirit of leftism began idependently centuries earlier among Gentiles.) For a long time the interests of leftism and Judaism have coincided in the West. This is why Jewish Hollywood pushes a leftist message: by disorienting, weakening, and heading off Gentile solidarity, they reap benefit. By directing what Gentile solidarity exists against an exaggerated threat of Islam, they reap benefit. And so on. Unfortunately for Jews, the forces they've helped unleash will inevitably turn against them.
Last edited by Koveras on Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:48 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| These attacks on the Jewish character are what make it impossible to have an intellectual discussion about the state of Israel and Zionism without being labeled an anti-Semite. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't be ridiculous. What makes it impossible to discuss Israel without being called names is (1) the Jewish history's victim mentality, (2) the Jewish chosen people mentality ("Nobody judges Israel!"), and (3) Jewish influence on social and political discourse. Why, after all, are you so worried about being called an anti-Semite? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| Why, after all, are you so worried about being called an anti-Semite? |
Because I'm not a bigot and whatever issues I have with Israel have nothing to do with what the Jewish people are or aren't. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I want to chip in here. This is an amazing discussion, and I hope it is not shut down, as however you feel about the role of Judiasm, what this discussion shows is how fragile the whole multiculturalism thing is.
Mises. You point out some uncomfortable facts about modern history, and I believe you have made a good case for nepotism based on shared ethnicity, but you make some big leaps as well. I don't see how Summers et all would have been able to steer the whole of the Russian economy into the hands of a few Jewish people of their choosing. More than likely those Jewish people were already at the top and took advantage of a bad situation. As for the Jews being at war with western society, yes at times there has been some serious conflict, but I disagree with your narrative. The historical narrative doesn't really provide enough context to say who started what, and its just as likely that locals decided a pogrom would be a nice change of pace. It was that kind of world. In modern times, it seems to me that Jews are not monolithic in opinion, but that you find them on the left and the right, and some are ardent defenders of western civ.
Fox. your claims of genetic superiority leave me utterly cold. I remember my AP physics class being 80% asian, despite living in a town with a sizeable Jewish population. I do think you make a great point about culture being a big part of educational success, and certainly, Jews in america have had a solid contribution to academia.
I think the basic truth here is that people almost always act according to the benefit of whatever "tribe" they belong to. Often that means ethnic affilation. Mutliculti attempts to change this have failed miserably. Even when they have gotten the native population to accept "outsiders" those outsiders have not been so easily deattached from thier identity. Not sure how you could approach this, but another piece of the puzzle to worry about as the world seems to unravel. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| Why, after all, are you so worried about being called an anti-Semite? |
Because I'm not a bigot and whatever issues I have with Israel have nothing to do with what the Jewish people are or aren't. |
They aren't interested in these differences. The second you have harsh criticism for Israel, however justified, they'll call you an anti-Semite, because it's a trump card, because they've framed the discourse that way. Since you seem pleased to use the same strategy, this is my last response to you. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| Why, after all, are you so worried about being called an anti-Semite? |
Because I'm not a bigot and whatever issues I have with Israel have nothing to do with what the Jewish people are or aren't. |
They aren't interested in these differences. The second you have harsh criticism for Israel, however justified, they'll call you an anti-Semite, because it's a trump card, because they've framed the discourse that way. Since you seem pleased to use the same strategy, this is my last response to you. |
I'm calling you an anti-Semite because you aren't criticizing Israel, you're criticizing Jews. If you want to criticize Israel, don't do it on the basis of some fantastical worldwide Jewish cabal. I fail to see how making blanket statements claiming Jews to be immoral money grubbers has anything to do with Israel. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
Fox. your claims of genetic superiority leave me utterly cold. I remember my AP physics class being 80% asian, despite living in a town with a sizeable Jewish population. |
Well, thanks for the anecdote, but it actually supports my case more than you'd think. Why do you think Asians made up such a fair portion of your class? It's because of a combination of racial intelligence and, more importantly, a culture of success. Just like Jews, (certain) Asian peoples benefit from both of these things, and in fact, I'd even say they do so to a greater degree. I admire certain elements of Asian culture very much. In fact, if Asians were less stymied by a certain cultural insularity (and less stymied by the fact that they're clearly and immediately distinguishable from whites), I think you'd probably see a wildly disproportionate number of American businesses headed by them as well. Asians can out compete Jews in the classroom, but in a real world setting that doesn't consist primarily of other Asians, their culture makes it difficult to transfer that academic superiority into success.
However, if we're willing to admit that these things can be a factor regarding Asians -- and I think we'd be fools not to -- we can't keep pretending the same doesn't apply to other groups. Like Asians, Jews do well because they're fairly intelligent, and have a culture of success (however, one that is very unfortunately not flowering in Israel as it does in the Diaspora, as the Jews there very unfortunately seem to be sliding away from intellectualism and towards religious radicalism). Blacks and Hispanics in America both have (statistically speaking) a slight intellectual handicap and also unfortunately suffer from a culture of failure.
If one releases their insecurities and simply observes the world, the model I'm suggesting explains not just Jewish success, but how more or less every ethnic group has fared in our society. Of course, it's not very politically correct to say this, but like Koveras, I'm not a fan of political correctness.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| I do think you make a great point about culture being a big part of educational success, and certainly, Jews in america have had a solid contribution to academia. |
I think Jewish culture is a much stronger contributor to any success they have than Jewish intelligence. I'm simply not willing to ignore the genetic element, or even try to unduly minimalize it. I also have no discomfort in admitting Asian genetic superiority, at least with regard to mental faculty.
Last edited by Fox on Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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@ FOX I agree with that for the most part, although like Mises points out, ethnic nepotism by whoever is in charge at the moment also plays a role. I guess I come down on culture being a bigger role, although thats mainly as I find it disturbing to argue that anyone is "superior" genetically.
So how can we take that into account when devising social policy, if we do so at all? Having some sort of strict ethnic quottas seems to me to be very bad for everyone in the long run. It forments resentment, and ethnic competition. I guess we could just pick a cultural and enforce it, while making everyone hump till we all look the same and lack any ethnic component. That sounds funner, but I am still not sure it would work. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| @ FOX I agree with that for the most part, although like Mises points out, ethnic nepotism by whoever is in charge at the moment also plays a role. |
Sure, but all ethnic groups practice nepotism, so regardless of what mises thinks, ethnic nepotism can't explain this all away on its own.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| I guess I come down on culture being a bigger role, although thats mainly as I find it disturbing to argue that anyone is "superior" genetically. |
If we can admit that certain ethnic groups are predisposed towards certain physical traits (skin tone, nose shape, eye color, etc), why is it so uncomfortable that they might also possess predispositions towards certain mental attributes as well? Remember, I'm not saying anyone is ethically superior here. I think everyone partaking in this conversation is intelligent and reasonable enough to recognize that admitting that group X tends towards a certain level of intelligence doesn't mean that they should be oppressed in any way, and more importantly, I think we all recognize that outliers exist, such that individuals should still be judged first and foremost as individuals.
Generalizations just help us understand why the world is the way it is. They needn't be a concern when dealing with other humans on the individual level.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| So how can we take that into account when devising social policy, if we do so at all? |
In my opinion, the answer is to devise a social policy which does not allow for unlimited competition for economic resources. Such a policy involves many elements, but one of them is a strong, progressive taxation policy that helps redistribute wealth downwards to ensure those who can't compete quite as effectively still share in society's prosperity.
We don't need ethnic quotas or enforced "equality" with regards to high-paying professions. We just need an economic policy that ensures over-represented groups don't walk away with such enormous wealth that they gain undue influence as a result, and under-represented groups don't essentially become marginalized.
My father is a wealthy man. This policy would reduce my family's income substantially. I still support it, because it makes for good social policy. The rich getting richer while the poor getting poorer isn't good, and when group X is over-represented among the rich, it also causes social anxiety of the sort certain people in this thread are expressing. I don't want that. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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@ Fox, I don't think anyone wants unlimmited competition. As far as gov helping, one problem is that whoever is in control could use those mechanisms to further benefit themselves under the guise of making a more just soceity. I think right now the gov is a ping pong ball batted about by different interests, and mainly used to handicap competitors rather than govern well. But agreed, if you had neutral good gov, those would be good policies.
My big problem with your points on genetics is that we really don't know. We have indicators that theyre might be a difference, but were still groping around in the dark. If you took a snapshot of viking culture in the middle ages you might have said they were superior in terms of physical condition and innately aggressive. Modern Norwegians just aren't the same. Until we have a better understanding of what the genetic compononet is, I am not going to mess with it.
Honestly though, I found your last two posts pretty agreeable, and besides being cautious when discussing the role of genetics in success, and a general suspicioun of gov, don't have have much trouble agreeing with you. I think that in your last post when you agreed with Mises in that their was ethnic nepotism, but that this was almost universal, it was a succint description of the human condition. Still not sure about the solution though. |
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