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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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 Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| You went to left field on this one |
Then, expound. How do you need access to all your money? What exactly are you doing that involves saving (storing) money and then using it? If you don't like the left field entertainment, fine. Let's get serious then.
What exactly is your story, bud?
(This is like having a conversation with a homeless person) |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
No i just don't listen to wrong advice. I do not think it is right for the government to force companies to pay into a pension program for their employees unless they are deducting the employee's share and sending it in.
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I didn't think it was right for the drinking age to be 21 in the states. It's still the law though. |
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superNET
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| This is like having a conversation with a homeless person |
Comments like this just do nothing for the discussion. I am merely stating my preference and do not feel taken advantage of if I choose to opt out of a pension program. I have no guarantee that I will live to collect the money so why not have it at my disposal, at my bank when I do need it--like a medical emergency.
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| I didn't think it was right for the drinking age to be 21 in the states. It's still the law though |
That is just absurd as in a discussion one should be allowed to state their opinion and expect intelligent replies in return. You do not think it is wrong because you get your money fix without earning it but everyone else has to pay for it by buying overpriced products. |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
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| This is like having a conversation with a homeless person |
Comments like this just do nothing for the discussion. I am merely stating my preference and do not feel taken advantage of if I choose to opt out of a pension program. I have no guarantee that I will live to collect the money so why not have it at my disposal, at my bank when I do need it--like a medical emergency.
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| I didn't think it was right for the drinking age to be 21 in the states. It's still the law though |
That is just absurd as in a discussion one should be allowed to state their opinion and expect intelligent replies in return. You do not think it is wrong because you get your money fix without earning it but everyone else has to pay for it by buying overpriced products. |
lol whatever guy. It's clear something is wrong with your brain and I know I can't change that.
Now if the Korean pension office actually checks to see that you haven't been paying into a pension plan, I only wish I could be there to laugh and see you pay the 500,000 or w/e won. |
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superNET
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's clear something is wrong with your brain and I know I can't change that.
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There is nothing wrong with my brain, I just feel that any company should not have to make matching payments into pension funds. Nothing wrong with that opinion.
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| Now if the Korean pension office actually checks to see that you haven't been paying into a pension plan, I only wish I could be there to laugh and see you pay the 500,000 or w/e won. |
I really wonder if you people ever really read what other posters write. Where did I say I wasn't paying into the system? No where. Having a personal view or preference does not equate to breaking the law.
I really wonder how some members of Dave's actually become teachers, your English abilities are certainly lacking.. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
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| This is like having a conversation with a homeless person |
Comments like this just do nothing for the discussion. I am merely stating my preference and do not feel taken advantage of if I choose to opt out of a pension program. I have no guarantee that I will live to collect the money... . |
If you are healthy the likelihood of you dying within a year is highly improbable. Unless you are in a high risk profession. |
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superNET
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are healthy the likelihood of you dying within a year is highly improbable. Unless you are in a high risk profession. |
Or you are walking down the street and get hit by a scooter, motortcycle, car...or in a car and get hit or lose control and go off the road. Yes it is highly improbabl but there is no guarantee.
I am merely just stating my preference, please do not assume I am breaking the law, allowing my employer to take advantage of me or whatever.
By stopping companies from having to match funds, maybe they woul dincrease the salaries of their workers, stop the practice of having them work part time and make it so their employees do NOT qualify for benefits, keep them employed longer and so on.
If you look at the bigger picture and factor in all the data you might be convinced that stopping matching funding would be more beneficial for people. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
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| If you are healthy the likelihood of you dying within a year is highly improbable. Unless you are in a high risk profession. |
Or you are walking down the street and get hit by a scooter, motortcycle, car...or in a car and get hit or lose control and go off the road. Yes it is highly improbabl but there is no guarantee.
I am merely just stating my preference, please do not assume I am breaking the law, allowing my employer to take advantage of me or whatever.
By stopping companies from having to match funds, maybe they woul dincrease the salaries of their workers, stop the practice of having them work part time and make it so their employees do NOT qualify for benefits, keep them employed longer and so on.
If you look at the bigger picture and factor in all the data you might be convinced that stopping matching funding would be more beneficial for people. |
Except that companies exist to make a profit. If they were able to stop matching funds who's to say any of that other stuff would happen?
So to sum up your post. You think companies should not pay pension or benefits ( a real world negative for the employee) in exchange for some hypothetical benefits which some companies may or may not implement?
Do you wonder why people think that is a bad idea? |
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superNET
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Do you wonder why people think that is a bad idea? |
Compared to the reality right now, it is not a bad idea as companies do hire temps, or others for part time work so they do not have to pay matching contributions. There is nothing to lose by the change as many people do not benefit now because of the present company's employment structure.
Just think, if hagwons didn't have to pay into pension, classrooms might get heat in the winter. Of course, my idea depends upon the moral fabric of the employer or government regulation stipulating the re-direction of funds. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
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| Do you wonder why people think that is a bad idea? |
Compared to the reality right now, it is not a bad idea as companies do hire temps, or others for part time work so they do not have to pay matching contributions. There is nothing to lose by the change as many people do not benefit now because of the present company's employment structure.
Just think, if hagwons didn't have to pay into pension, classrooms might get heat in the winter. Of course, my idea depends upon the moral fabric of the employer or government regulation stipulating the re-direction of funds. |
you idiots are missing the point and tomplatz will back me up on this. IF A SCHOOL WANTS YOU HERE ON AN E2 VISA THEY ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO ENROLL YOU IN PENSION AND NHIC NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS!!!!!!!!!! Thats a legal promise the company makes to immig before they will process the paperwork. IT IS NOT A CHOICE FOR THE COMPANY, they want a foreign teacher on an E2 thats a condition of employment as a sponsor of the foreign teacher, you can not opt out. If immig finds out the company hasnt done this there are conesquences as in not being allowed to hire teachers on E2 visas, fines etc.
If a school wants to opt out paying pension etc then they hire F2's F5s etc not E2s as the school is not their sponsor. If they are taking out pension health insurance etc and not enrolling you then i doubt they are putting that money into heat for the school etc its going into the owners pocket.
If you here on an E2 you need to be enrolled, its actually for your own good. stuff does happen here more often than not and trust me you dont want to be in a korean hospital without insurance. |
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superNET
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| you idiots are missing the point and tomplatz will back me up on this. |
Saying this in a kind way, no we are not missing anything but simply not discussing the obvious and what we already know to be law. We are allowed to do that |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| superNET wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Do you wonder why people think that is a bad idea? |
Compared to the reality right now, it is not a bad idea as companies do hire temps, or others for part time work so they do not have to pay matching contributions. There is nothing to lose by the change as many people do not benefit now because of the present company's employment structure.
Just think, if hagwons didn't have to pay into pension, classrooms might get heat in the winter. Of course, my idea depends upon the moral fabric of the employer or government regulation stipulating the re-direction of funds. |
you idiots are missing the point and tomplatz will back me up on this. IF A SCHOOL WANTS YOU HERE ON AN E2 VISA THEY ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO ENROLL YOU IN PENSION AND NHIC NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS!!!!!!!!!! Thats a legal promise the company makes to immig before they will process the paperwork. IT IS NOT A CHOICE FOR THE COMPANY, they want a foreign teacher on an E2 thats a condition of employment as a sponsor of the foreign teacher, you can not opt out. If immig finds out the company hasnt done this there are conesquences as in not being allowed to hire teachers on E2 visas, fines etc.
If a school wants to opt out paying pension etc then they hire F2's F5s etc not E2s as the school is not their sponsor. If they are taking out pension health insurance etc and not enrolling you then i doubt they are putting that money into heat for the school etc its going into the owners pocket.
If you here on an E2 you need to be enrolled, its actually for your own good. stuff does happen here more often than not and trust me you dont want to be in a korean hospital without insurance. |
Do not seek to educate me on the law or what we are discussing.
I know the law and that is not what we are discussing. We are discussing if it SHOULD be law...in other words a hypothetical situation.
I've already pointed out the advantages of such a law which means that you agree with me. |
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qcat79
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
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The school is supposed to match your payments. So, teachers aren't saving their money, they are getting twice as much when they leave.
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What if i do not care for matching funds? Money isn't the only thing in life
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If your hagwon pays you a higher salary because they don't want to pay into pension, you are still going to lose some money. However, this is closer to what you are saying.
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I am not here to make money hand over fist. The salary and pension stuff to me is secondary. I will look at what I am offered and if I can live on the amount and meet myresponsibilities then I will accept the offer, if not then I look at others till I find one.
If not having matching funds allows me to teach, and meet my personal requirements then I would forgo pension and work. A salary coming in is better than none at all.
There is no guarantee that I will be alive to collect the pension and I could have used the money elsewhere. |
that's one of the most ignorant things i've ever heard. not fighting for higher wages, pension and severance are the major reasons why many foreigners here are getting screwed in their contracts. i don't believe ANYBODY when they say they're NOT here for the money. i certainly wouldn't be here if it weren't for the money factor. there are many other places i would rather be......but the money makes life for me a much more comfortable situation. besides, korea ain't cheap anymore. if you or anybody else here aren't getting paid a proper amount, then why stay? |
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superNET
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| that's one of the most ignorant things i've ever heard. not fighting for higher wages, pension and severance are the major reasons why many foreigners here are getting screwed in their contracts. i don't believe ANYBODY when they say they're NOT here for the money. i certainly wouldn't be here if it weren't for the money factor. there are many other places i would rather be......but the money makes life for me a much more comfortable situation. besides, korea ain't cheap anymore. if you or anybody else here aren't getting paid a proper amount, then why stay? |
Teaching is NOT about money. Your choice to believe me or not but guess what, I am not here for the money, I love teaching, I love my students and money is the last thing on my mind.
BUT to qualify that, I am not stupid either and make sure the wage and other terms are at an amount I can live with. I do not need a pension, nor a year end bonus though I do not give them back either since they are in the contract.
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We are discussing if it SHOULD be law...in other words a hypothetical situation.
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I wanted to ask your opinion on this scenario:
How about making participation voluntary with the caveat that if you sign up for pension you cannot withdraw your participation until you have finished your employment at that specific school.
That way those who do not want to sign-up do not have to and those that do can't leave a month later. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| superNET wrote: |
I wanted to ask your opinion on this scenario:
How about making participation voluntary with the caveat that if you sign up for pension you cannot withdraw your participation until you have finished your employment at that specific school.
That way those who do not want to sign-up do not have to and those that do can't leave a month later. |
Referring to the part in bold. That's already the way it is but it goes a bit further as well. In order to collect your pension you have to leave not only your school but also Korea. You have to show the pension office your airplane ticket as proof.
The problem with making it voluntary is this: Back in the bad old days many hakwon directors would send you a contract via e-mail. You'd read it make changes and sent it back. They'd agree to the changes...then once you got over here, they'd attempt to pressure you into the signing the original contract. I've had that happen a couple of times...to which I'd respond "Sorry I already have a signed contract." But I know a number of newbies who were so shell-shocked that they did this.
If pension was voluntary there's probably a good number of directors who would pressure the person who wanted pension into signing a contract that didn't include pension. This would be particularly true if there was another teacher working there who didn't want pension. "Oh John teacher doesn't want pension...why you want pension? Are you bad teacher, not care for students and only money?"
Given the number of contracts that don't include pension which I've reviewed in the contract sticky thread...this is a problem which has not abated over time. Now if Korea actually had a better track record of enforcing its laws, then yes I'd be for making pension voluntary. Until then, not so much. Bitter experience and plenty of it has made me wary (and this is coming from the apologist side of the fence). |
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