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LGSakers
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| LGSakers wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| And those people would be who? |
The obvious answer would be the people who support it and do nothing to change it. |
"Supporting X and doing nothing to change it," isn't synonymous with, "Considering X the best in the world." Please don't say stupid things like this to me. I don't like it. |
Lose the attitude, please.
The people who support the system would likely be the people who would call it the best. If you want specific names, I'd say use Google. I'm sure it has plenty of answers for wing-nuts who would support it outright. Try "us+justice+system+perception" for some good reads.
Check out this study, for example: http://www.abanet.org/media/perception/perceptions.pdf
It's a lengthy read (120 pages), but a quick look a the summary will give you an idea of how it is perceived. The main point made that is in contention is that the US Justice system is viewed as the "be all, end all"... I'd agree. As unfortunate as that sounds, I know numerous people who think it is the highest standard in the world.
My point with saying those who do nothing to change it was that those people are just as bad. Sorry for being a bit unclear, just typed it real quick. |
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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I will clarify my statement;
In the context of my post, the people I am claiming who support the system and call it 'the best' are those who stand to profit from the outcome.
This does not mean 'justice was served' because there was a lot of motivation surrounding the trials- be it political or reputation.
- The Petit trial occurred during the mid-term elections. Both candidates running for governor ran on the platform of 'law and order'. By allowing a mistrial, it would've been seen as justice was not served and many of the politicians would questioned by the media for allowing a killer to go free.
- In regards to the murder of Annie Le at Yale, the university wanted the investigation to be done expediently as so the school could continue on with the school year and in such a way that the university's reputation was not tainted, as was during the murder of the jogger at East Rock Park.
Those who benefited from the outcomes of the trials are the ones who will claim the judicial system is 'the best'.
But I said it has flaws.
Clear enough for you? |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LGSakers wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| LGSakers wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| And those people would be who? |
The obvious answer would be the people who support it and do nothing to change it. |
"Supporting X and doing nothing to change it," isn't synonymous with, "Considering X the best in the world." Please don't say stupid things like this to me. I don't like it. |
Lose the attitude, please. |
I had changed my post to make it more polite, but that doesn't change the fact that your response was useless and unwelcome. I won't be addressing you again. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
Clear enough for you? |
No, because it still doesn't answer my very simple question and instead keeps rehashing the rest of an argument I all ready told you I wasn't interested in reading again. That's fine, though, because I've lost interest in what was always simply a casual question. |
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| No, because it still doesn't answer my very simple question and instead keeps rehashing the rest of an argument I all ready told you I wasn't interested in reading again. |
Then what was your purpose?
Arguing?
If you have no interest in reading my post, then why question it? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LGSakers wrote: |
[q
Check out this study, for example: http://www.abanet.org/media/perception/perceptions.pdf
It's a lengthy read (120 pages), but a quick look a the summary will give you an idea of how it is perceived. The main point made that is in contention is that the US Justice system is viewed as the "be all, end all"... I'd agree. As unfortunate as that sounds, I know numerous people who think it is the highest standard in the world.
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The World Justice Project disagrees with this.
http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/6732-sweden-tops-government-ranking-while-us-lags
The U.S did place third in open government but was ranked near the bottom of most standings (out of the 11 high income nations included in the study).
Granted this study is not the be-all end all. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No, because it still doesn't answer my very simple question and instead keeps rehashing the rest of an argument I all ready told you I wasn't interested in reading again. |
Then what was your purpose?
Arguing? |
If my purpose was to argue, I'd have put forward an argument. In actuality, I very simply was curious about what motivated your fairly remarkable comment, nothing more. After you got defensive and adversarial I got the feeling you were just saying things instead of actually referencing anything meaningful, and when you continued to be defensive and adversarial I became certain of it. Thus, my curiosity was sated.
| mc_jc wrote: |
| If you have no interest in reading my post, then why question it? |
Because I was interested in a particular statement. I don't understand what's so complex about that. |
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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There is nothing argumentative or adversarial about my responses.
However, your responses seem to be isolating only one aspect of the post without fully reading the rest. If you had read the rest of the post, you would know what I was saying.
However, you are isolating one particular part of the post while calling the rest drivel, you might have your reasons and motives to do that, however in the spirit of the OP, I was basically trying to reinforce what the op was implying by giving a few examples of further injustice that happens in the US. However, since you refuse to read the rest of the post, you are oblivious to the argument.
Are you aware of how to debate?
When a person debates, they take into account both sides of the argument as not to be seen totally one-sided; which in this case I agreed that the US judicial system is flawed and full of mistakes, while I mentioned that people with certain interests during certain cases feel that justice was dispensed- hence, their claims that they consider it 'the best in the world', when we both know it's not.
TUB- I agree.
The US judicial system primarily serves a certain purpose during certain time periods. These days, especially during election periods, many politicians pledge a get-hard-on-crime attitude in which they focus on a particular case and instead of looking at the cases objectively, they use the cases in question to rally votes.
This causes many mistakes to be made when dispensing justice. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| However, your responses seem... |
What you think seems to be the case isn't important to me.
| mc_jc wrote: |
| However, since you refuse to read the rest of the post ... |
I read the entire post before making my first reply. That's how I know it's bland babble that I don't care to address or read again.
| mc_jc wrote: |
Are you aware of how to debate?
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I'm not debating with you. I don't care about your opinion at all, and debate is predicated upon caring about someone's opinion at least enough to try to change it or argue against it. I asked for information about a single comment regarding what unnamed other people thought, nothing more. Instead of just answering me in a clear concise fashion like a man, you got all whiny and defensive, which answered my question for me.
Trying to explain this to you is boring. I'm not going to persist in my attempt. |
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Then you have shown yourself to have another motive in your agenda other than to ask a question.
Whether you care or not, you showed enough concern about showing your opinion (or should I say, masking your opinion behind your "question") to keep your argument going.
Obviously you have an agenda that you want to press- too bad you are afraid to make your opinion known openly and have to hide behind your "question".
You're right, this is boring.
I prefer to have a meaningful discussion about a topic without it being hijacked by someone who wants to make their point, yet are too afraid to do so.
Have a nice day* |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| LGSakers wrote: |
[q
Check out this study, for example: http://www.abanet.org/media/perception/perceptions.pdf
It's a lengthy read (120 pages), but a quick look a the summary will give you an idea of how it is perceived. The main point made that is in contention is that the US Justice system is viewed as the "be all, end all"... I'd agree. As unfortunate as that sounds, I know numerous people who think it is the highest standard in the world.
. |
The World Justice Project disagrees with this.
http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/6732-sweden-tops-government-ranking-while-us-lags
The U.S did place third in open government but was ranked near the bottom of most standings (out of the 11 high income nations included in the study).
Granted this study is not the be-all end all. |
Thanks for posting the article, good info to know. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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The main problems with the US Justice system stem from American democracy and the people:
Tough on crime wins votes
The Death Penalty is popular
Racial prejudice in the jury
Elected judges are more likely to convict |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Whilst I couldn't agree more that executions based on miscarriages of justice are extremely unpleasant, I have performed a cost-benefit analysis of capital punishment, factored this cost in, and decided that I would still prefer to have capital punishment than not. Executing murderers and child rapists is, in my judgement, not only a duty, but also a privilege and a joy. I can scarcely think of anything more sane, rational and decent. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| What Sergio said...well said, mate.... |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Whilst I couldn't agree more that executions based on miscarriages of justice are extremely unpleasant, I have performed a cost-benefit analysis of capital punishment, factored this cost in, and decided that I would still prefer to have capital punishment than not. Executing murderers and child rapists is, in my judgement, not only a duty, but also a privilege and a joy. I can scarcely think of anything more sane, rational and decent. |
So how exactly did you calculate the value of a wrongly executed innocent? |
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