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tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| southernman wrote: |
I once taught a CNN based class to my higher level first year middle school students. After a few months the topic of Korean female sex slaves during the second world war came up.
I asked my boss before class if he wanted me to show this particular lesson to my students. He said sure, why not, it happened. He asked me if I was uncomfortable with the subject matter. I said I was aware of it and thought it was an important piece of female history in Korea.
Both the boys and girls new about the history and they had a good sensitive discussion on it. I was actually surprised and heartened by how the boys responded. It was a worthwhile experience for everyone concerned.
Some of you need to get of your high horse, sure there are delicate matters out there. But we as teachers should have the capability and compassion to be able to handle these situations.
My boss was Korean and he was happy for me to take this lesson.
At the end of the day thats all that matters. Nothing a troll says can change the fact that their opinion is only that (the opinion of a troll) and not to be taken seriously.
I'm sure the OP has the skill set and with the backing of his co-teacher should have an enjoyable interesting camp. |
There is a difference between the two topics. Everyone, even the Japanese, can agree that sex slaves were a bad idea. Feminism, on the other hand, is more cultural than anything. It's also a heavier topic than sex slaves during WWII as there are different opinions and realities in different countries. For example: should Grandpa be making the kimchi for Chuseok? No? Why not? Why can't dad stay at home and raise the baby? See. It goes both ways.
With a discussion about sex slaves no one is going to stand up and say "Hey, you know maybe it maybe ain't such a bad idea." It's a single mindset shared by everyone in the class; where as gender equality isn't.
While that would make for an interesting class I don't believe that it's one that should be done in a second language class. And if the students are that high of a level than it's no longer is a language class. It's a debate class; then you'd have to teach debate before even approaching the topic.
A topic like this can be done. But the majority of the time it shouldn't as the students levels are not up to par. It shouldn't be done because a teacher just wants to do it. It should be done when the students can handle it and are bright enough to do something with it other than say "A woman can come a doctor because....." |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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youre both saying roughly the same thing, so no point in really getting bogged down in it.
IF the OP can handle the difficulties and complexities of teaching this material THEN it will be an interesting and fun class.
If on the other hand he cant, then it will be a gigantic misfiring lesson and probably a waste of time.
The op though should NOT try and force a specific narrative and let the discussion develop according to the students interests and level. He should also allow their opinions to dominate the discussion and be expressed without forcing his own perspective upon the students. Finally, if it starts running out of steam, or isnt going quite how he expects it to go, he should probably switch to something a little less heavy and a little more 'english campy'.
Seems fairly sensible. This can be done, and i have the ability to handle this not only from my now 5 and a half years of teaching middle school both here and in japan, but also from my educational background. I think ive done more than enough of these type of lessons (admittedly less focussed over 15 weeks), to know how to deliver them. And with my coteach completely on board, this should really be much less dramatic than this thread has made it out to be. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="tanklor1 It shouldn't be done because a teacher just wants to do it. [/quote]
... and for a whole week?
Gloat away, OP... nothing will be able to convince me that you're not just doing this to bolster your own ego and sense of cultural superiority. it says a lot that you condescendingly write off lessons about everyday interactions as somehow trivial, mundane and beneath you (but not beneath me, apparently').
Maybe this is 'trolling' or whatever, but to be honest, the way that word is thrown around, it has very little meaning to me. This is me calling it how I see it... nothing more or less.
And I would like to add that you would probably also be allowed to do a lesson on the purity and beauty of white skin in the Philippines and get away with it-- of course, very few would (some definitely would, feigning disgust all the while), because it's against our 'liberal' values, but on the other hand, I really can't imagine the majority vehemently opposing the compliment and taking appropriate action, even if it is rooted in racism... as you see loser guys exploiting it in Korea all the time.
And maybe things are increasingly headed that way here, I'm not sure-- but the fact that a lot of people on this thread seem to take no issue with the notion of us being cultural missionaries, spreading the good word of American-style liberty and truth genuinely makes me cringe. Has anyone on this thread actively encouraged their students to take pride in their own culture, or has it always been about you you you?
At the very least, try to show that you appreciate KOREA as much as it 'appreciates' you (as much as any country could appreciate its American 'guests', I suppose). You probably just mean women's rights anyway (and the apathetics who float along, agreeing with whatever is most popular while considering themselves to be 'liberal', 'enlightened' and 'free')... not the actual feminist movement which actively fights and campaigns and demands change-- but if you're going to do 'feminism' then AT LEAST talk about how it conflicts with traditions and call into question whether it's more important to adhere to traditional duties and roles or to live one's life according to one's own wishes... don't make this into the one-sided nightmare I'm picturing in my head.
And try to suppress all those little smiles and moments where your eyes light up as you realize that all of these girls truly believe that they would rather be dedicated to their jobs than their hypothetical future children, because it's really not your job to positively reinforce their desire to 'be free' from traditional familial responsibilities, no matter how much of an abomination you consider them to be... and make no mistake, those little smiles and pats on the head and positive reinforcements do have an impact.
So yeah, overdramatic me would stay the heck away from this topic at all costs... and guess what, my students still learn English.
Last edited by ESL Milk "Everyday on Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ippy wrote: |
youre both saying roughly the same thing, so no point in really getting bogged down in it.
IF the OP can handle the difficulties and complexities of teaching this material THEN it will be an interesting and fun class.
If on the other hand he cant, then it will be a gigantic misfiring lesson and probably a waste of time.
The op though should NOT try and force a specific narrative and let the discussion develop according to the students interests and level. He should also allow their opinions to dominate the discussion and be expressed without forcing his own perspective upon the students. Finally, if it starts running out of steam, or isnt going quite how he expects it to go, he should probably switch to something a little less heavy and a little more 'english campy'.
Seems fairly sensible. This can be done, and i have the ability to handle this not only from my now 5 and a half years of teaching middle school both here and in japan, but also from my educational background. I think ive done more than enough of these type of lessons (admittedly less focussed over 15 weeks), to know how to deliver them. And with my coteach completely on board, this should really be much less dramatic than this thread has made it out to be. |
If you have the qualifications why make the thread? The only real reason I can see is that you were bored in the office and wanted a topic that had some legs. You didn't need to start this thread because you already knew the answer. You started it out of boredom. Which to be fair is the main reason for most of us start threads here; so I ain't going to knock you on it. 
Have fun with your class. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ETA: ah, why add more fuel to it? :/ |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Not to be a party pooper but who are you teaching for: the kids or yourself?
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I know where you're coming from but you don't always have to choose subjects to suit the lowest common denominator in the class. You are teaching a language through subjects your students will find interesting hopefully but not all the girls in the class will be obssessed with Big Bang and the kind of thing Steelrails and Baldteacher are interested in. Some of the students (the ones like Lisa out of the Simpsons) might actually find feminism an interesting subject and you should give them the chance occasionally. Not often obviously, that wouldn't work, but now and then. |
Darn skippy I'm interested in Big Bang. But people who are into Big Bang can also be into feminism and politics
(catflap can't seem to accept the idea that someone can like pop music AND politics). Try it out and be open-minded.
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| I prefer the subtle approach of showing minorities and women as doctors, politicians, and police officers, and men as chefs (I often include photos of Gordon Ramsey) and teachers. |
This. In my PPTs I try to reverse Gender roles as much as possible- Korean Girls Soccer Team, Male Kindergarten Teachers, and always Female Pilots (my mom is a licensed pilot).
I also try to include pictures people of African/Black/Indian/Latino background in roles relating to success and education.
But I also make sure to include plenty of pictures of Koreans as role-models, especially ones in areas outside of traditional Korean "strengths".
The good thing about this approach is it shows these in a good light- that Korean male chef looks pretty good to the kids with their cries of "oh delicious"
I don't see this as forcing my culture on anyone. I see it as telling each student that they can go out and be whoever they want to be, that they can succeed.
To the OP- There is a book that was introduced to me to be used in my Teacher's Training Class called Discussion Topics for the Korean Classroom or something like that by I think it was Jack McMurtrie, and put out by Pusan University Press, I believe (I know, I know, terrible help I am...) It had a wide-range of topics, some of which approached controversial, but were generally mild. There were over 40 different topics ranging from Environmentalism, to Sports, to School, to UFOs, and more. Some turned out to be very easy-going topics, others there was some tension (and you couldn't tell which topics could produce that...the mild ones like Sports got two guys yelling over baseball). The book is meant for High Schoolers, but I think it could be adapted to Middle Schoolers.
My favorite topic from that was Labor Unions. I was stunned as one of the teachers, an older guy, related his experiences of throwing molotov cocktails at Chun Doo Hwan's riot police during a student protest. He was thrown in prison, pardoned, and is now the head of the branch of the Teacher's Union (Left-Leaning one of course).
I don't know about Middle School students, but I know with the adult students the book was great at bringing out their knowledge and life stories and opinions. One teacher told me about how he spent 6 months on an NZ Organic Farm after leaving the military, he initially wanted to work in a kibbutz but there was no space. He got a job at Kia and quit to become a teacher four years ago because he had enough of the corporate machine. |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Not to be a party pooper but who are you teaching for: the kids or yourself?
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I know where you're coming from but you don't always have to choose subjects to suit the lowest common denominator in the class. You are teaching a language through subjects your students will find interesting hopefully but not all the girls in the class will be obssessed with Big Bang and the kind of thing Steelrails and Baldteacher are interested in. Some of the students (the ones like Lisa out of the Simpsons) might actually find feminism an interesting subject and you should give them the chance occasionally. Not often obviously, that wouldn't work, but now and then. |
Darn skippy I'm interested in Big Bang. But people who are into Big Bang can also be into feminism and politics
(catflap can't seem to accept the idea that someone can like pop music AND politics). Try it out and be open-minded.
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Other interests of people into Big Bang: clothing that is too small even for the scrawny people that wear it, eyeshadow for men, androgyny, bad dye jobs, laser hair removal, same-sex marriage.......or was that the interests of members of Big Bang? |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Not to be a party pooper but who are you teaching for: the kids or yourself?
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I know where you're coming from but you don't always have to choose subjects to suit the lowest common denominator in the class. You are teaching a language through subjects your students will find interesting hopefully but not all the girls in the class will be obssessed with Big Bang and the kind of thing Steelrails and Baldteacher are interested in. Some of the students (the ones like Lisa out of the Simpsons) might actually find feminism an interesting subject and you should give them the chance occasionally. Not often obviously, that wouldn't work, but now and then. |
Darn skippy I'm interested in Big Bang. But people who are into Big Bang can also be into feminism and politics
(catflap can't seem to accept the idea that someone can like pop music AND politics). Try it out and be open-minded.
| Quote: |
| I prefer the subtle approach of showing minorities and women as doctors, politicians, and police officers, and men as chefs (I often include photos of Gordon Ramsey) and teachers. |
This. In my PPTs I try to reverse Gender roles as much as possible- Korean Girls Soccer Team, Male Kindergarten Teachers, and always Female Pilots (my mom is a licensed pilot).
I also try to include pictures people of African/Black/Indian/Latino background in roles relating to success and education.
But I also make sure to include plenty of pictures of Koreans as role-models, especially ones in areas outside of traditional Korean "strengths".
The good thing about this approach is it shows these in a good light- that Korean male chef looks pretty good to the kids with their cries of "oh delicious"
I don't see this as forcing my culture on anyone. I see it as telling each student that they can go out and be whoever they want to be, that they can succeed.
To the OP- There is a book that was introduced to me to be used in my Teacher's Training Class called Discussion Topics for the Korean Classroom or something like that by I think it was Jack McMurtrie, and put out by Pusan University Press, I believe (I know, I know, terrible help I am...) It had a wide-range of topics, some of which approached controversial, but were generally mild. There were over 40 different topics ranging from Environmentalism, to Sports, to School, to UFOs, and more. Some turned out to be very easy-going topics, others there was some tension (and you couldn't tell which topics could produce that...the mild ones like Sports got two guys yelling over baseball). The book is meant for High Schoolers, but I think it could be adapted to Middle Schoolers.
My favorite topic from that was Labor Unions. I was stunned as one of the teachers, an older guy, related his experiences of throwing molotov cocktails at Chun Doo Hwan's riot police during a student protest. He was thrown in prison, pardoned, and is now the head of the branch of the Teacher's Union (Left-Leaning one of course).
I don't know about Middle School students, but I know with the adult students the book was great at bringing out their knowledge and life stories and opinions. One teacher told me about how he spent 6 months on an NZ Organic Farm after leaving the military, he initially wanted to work in a kibbutz but there was no space. He got a job at Kia and quit to become a teacher four years ago because he had enough of the corporate machine. |
Thanks dude, thats one of the most helpful posts so far  Ill definitely be looking into it and seeing what i can find.
On the subject of feminism and kpop, there was a documentary on discovery a while back (hip korea), that mentioned 2NE1... wait! i did type it all out, but then i found the actual clip. Its a nice clip. Its not massively deep or anything, but certainly the kind of stuff you could start building a lesson around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vtY1tnUTDA
Interesting little fact-ette on the fanbase demographic. |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Decent debate!
Good luck to the OP to making an interesting class on feminism.� just make sure what you teach avoids putting down Korean culture in any way (obviously) and is appropriate for the age level. (The OP seems quite aware of this anyway..)
I teach Poly Sci here at uni level and we�ve just covered The Suffragettes Mary Wollstonecraft, Simone de Beauvoir, and the pro-vs-anti pornography feminist debates of the 1980�s/90�s..all good stuff and certainly universal themes - struggle for democracy, equality and fair treatment and gender roles. Those posters arguing that �feminism� is cultural and not applicable to Korea are having a laugh � surely joking right?
Would it be cheeky to suggest that those against this lesson are�..
1. Not big fans of Barak Obama?
2. Not big fans of Richard Dawkins?
Oh � and to the poster who argued to only make classes �relevant� to student�s immediate lives�Please Stop Teaching Now� it is not your calling�I don�t care if you�re just ESL � You must Never Try To Teach Again � put down that whiteboard marker and return to the office cubicle from whence you came and don�t step inside another classroom!! |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Not to be a party pooper but who are you teaching for: the kids or yourself?
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I know where you're coming from but you don't always have to choose subjects to suit the lowest common denominator in the class. You are teaching a language through subjects your students will find interesting hopefully but not all the girls in the class will be obssessed with Big Bang and the kind of thing Steelrails and Baldteacher are interested in. Some of the students (the ones like Lisa out of the Simpsons) might actually find feminism an interesting subject and you should give them the chance occasionally. Not often obviously, that wouldn't work, but now and then. |
Darn skippy I'm interested in Big Bang. But people who are into Big Bang can also be into feminism and politics
(catflap can't seem to accept the idea that someone can like pop music AND politics). Try it out and be open-minded.
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Other interests of people into Big Bang: clothing that is too small even for the scrawny people that wear it, eyeshadow for men, androgyny, bad dye jobs, laser hair removal, same-sex marriage.......or was that the interests of members of Big Bang? |
Hey hey hey. Laser hair removal is a wonderful thing! |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| I didnt say it wasn't. I just mentioned that it might be a topic of interest. It's all about fostering discussion. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| drydell wrote: |
| Oh � and to the poster who argued to only make classes �relevant� to student�s immediate lives�Please Stop Teaching Now� it is not your calling�I don�t care if you�re just ESL � You must Never Try To Teach Again � put down that whiteboard marker and return to the office cubicle from whence you came and don�t step inside another classroom!! |
Ruh-roh! that might have been me. But not quite. It has a very specific context. That was "why am i so insistent on teaching this rather than genocide, dokdo et al?" I replied because its MORE (qualifier) relevant to their immediate lives, AND (heres the second qualifier) it offers a great deal of ambivalence allowing for many varied and interesting viewpoints (ie. there is no one single 'relevant' viewpoint but many).
Basically relevance is heavily qualified. The other dude thinks that its important to focus on grammatical structures and real life situations to teach english. Which is fair enough. And of course i am doing this the other 300 or so days of the year in my regular class and likely will be doing with my first year winter camp for mixed ability kids. So id certainly never say you ONLY teach 'relevant material' (though 2 things on that: first relevance is a big wide field not restricted to gender, politics, survival english, or a thousand other things, and secondly, like any half decent teacher i do make an effort to tailor all lesson plans to their interests anyway, so relevance actually does play a large part in all my considerations on subject material as it likely should ).
ETA: to remove a bit of unconscious trolling
Last edited by ippy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| I didnt say it wasn't. I just mentioned that it might be a topic of interest. It's all about fostering discussion. |
Ah. I read more meaning into it.
My apologies, dear sir. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Forget it.
Last edited by ESL Milk "Everyday on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BaldTeacher
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Other interests of people into Big Bang: clothing that is too small even for the scrawny people that wear it, eyeshadow for men, androgyny, bad dye jobs, laser hair removal, same-sex marriage.......or was that the interests of members of Big Bang? |
That was f'ing funny. |
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