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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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The more important factor to think about is the impact of fat on morality. Sometimes some people posit that "fat people are bad or immoral".
So whether that is caused by rice or saturated fats, quit eating so much. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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In spite of childish, unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks, I took an initial look at your first link. Your "proper scientist" seems on par with a similar level of precision. In the very first paragraph I found enough guff not to bother reading further. Regarding the Weston Price Foundation your "proper scientist" says,
"They assert, among other claims, that high cholesterol diets are healthy even beneficial thus supporting their advocacy for the consumption of raw un-pasteurized, un-homogenized grass-fed beef and other animal-based food products."
They support the consumption of "raw un-pasteurized, un-homogenized grass-fed beef." Pray tell what is pasteurized, homogenized beef? I wouldn't say the elderly chap is doddering or suffering the ill effects of B12 deficiency or anything, but I've never heard of pasteurizing and homogenizing a hunk of beef. If that be ignorance, please enlighten me on this process for treating meat and I'll consider reading further.
By the way, Dr. Mercola has never claimed to be a research scientist. He is a clinician. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
The more important factor to think about is the impact of fat on morality. Sometimes some people posit that "fat people are bad or immoral".
So whether that is caused by rice or saturated fats, quit eating so much. |
Sometimes some people say stupid things. It doesn't follow that we should do anything unless your moral principle is avoid all criticism.
An important moral trait in a free country is tolerance. It is the corollary of the moral principle of liberty: Mind your own business and accept others as they are unless they do something to infringe on your own freedoms and actions. |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Louis VI wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
The more important factor to think about is the impact of fat on morality. Sometimes some people posit that "fat people are bad or immoral".
So whether that is caused by rice or saturated fats, quit eating so much. |
Sometimes some people say stupid things. It doesn't follow that we should do anything unless your moral principle is avoid all criticism.
An important moral trait in a free country is tolerance. It is the corollary of the moral principle of liberty: Mind your own business and accept others as they are unless they do something to infringe on your own freedoms and actions. |
Some people would posit that fat people infringe on the freedom of others by gobbling up all the food and driving up the price for agricultural commodities by their gluttony. Then burdening society when they are lolling around having heart attacks and diabetes all over the place.
I believe there is a strain of thought in health policy circles suggesting that people who refuse to mend their ways will be forced to pay more for NHS care. |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
In spite of childish, unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks, I took an initial look at your first link. Your "proper scientist" seems on par with a similar level of precision. In the very first paragraph I found enough guff not to bother reading further. Regarding the Weston Price Foundation your "proper scientist" says,
"They assert, among other claims, that high cholesterol diets are healthy even beneficial thus supporting their advocacy for the consumption of raw un-pasteurized, un-homogenized grass-fed beef and other animal-based food products."
They support the consumption of "raw un-pasteurized, un-homogenized grass-fed beef." Pray tell what is pasteurized, homogenized beef? I wouldn't say the elderly chap is doddering or suffering the ill effects of B12 deficiency or anything, but I've never heard of pasteurizing and homogenizing a hunk of beef. If that be ignorance, please enlighten me on this process for treating meat and I'll consider reading further.
By the way, Dr. Mercola has never claimed to be a research scientist. He is a clinician. |
Yeah � the bit you cut out of your selective quote �Campbell said grass fed beef and other animal products � (i.e milk/cheese/yoghurt) obviously meaning it�s the milk cheese yoghurt that are raw un-pasteurized, un-homogenized � anyone with half a brain can see that. This is exactly what arguing with you Low-Carbers gets reduced to�..and why it�s such a waste of time..
Mercola has no peer reviewed work �don�t you care? it�s important in establishing scientific validity. You can follow whomever you like�your choice but the vast body of nutritional science supports moving towards a diet in whole foods � more fruit and veg � less sat fat and trans fats �
The links between animal foods and cancers just keep mounting and mounting � The only diet that has been clinically shown to reverse heart disease is a strict whole food plant based diet � show me the high-fat � high protein diet that has been show to do the same�its a pipe dream -
Mercola is more interested in selling his products to you (and some certainly dodgy ones)
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
Heres another study showing a direct link between sat fat consumption and heart disease deaths
http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Saturated-fat-risk-more-evidence
You Low Carbers are exactly like the Global Warming Deniers � It�s irrelevant to them that upwards of 97% of all climatologists believe in AGW. Nothing will change their minds and they will endlessly drone on citing their few maverick scientists and repeating the same zombie arguments (arguments killed off that are constantly resurrected).
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Louis VI wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
The more important factor to think about is the impact of fat on morality. Sometimes some people posit that "fat people are bad or immoral".
So whether that is caused by rice or saturated fats, quit eating so much. |
Sometimes some people say stupid things. It doesn't follow that we should do anything unless your moral principle is avoid all criticism.
An important moral trait in a free country is tolerance. It is the corollary of the moral principle of liberty: Mind your own business and accept others as they are unless they do something to infringe on your own freedoms and actions. |
They do, though. They tax the system with their inordinate amount of healthcare necessary. My sister is a medic and my cousin is the doctor 2nd in command in a certain citywide program that shall remain unnamed. Obese people cost far more than the fit, and often tend to be less well off, using public funds to pay for treatment.
EDIT: I don't think that fat people are bad people. They have a problem that requires treatment. My dad's obese. It's heartbreaking, because he has a plethora of health issues, yet, even when I lived at home, there was nothing I could do. I could cook the most delicious yet healthy foods (with meat for him) and he'd still sneak food when nobody was around.
Last edited by NYC_Gal 2.0 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Louis VI wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
The more important factor to think about is the impact of fat on morality. Sometimes some people posit that "fat people are bad or immoral".
So whether that is caused by rice or saturated fats, quit eating so much. |
Sometimes some people say stupid things. It doesn't follow that we should do anything unless your moral principle is avoid all criticism.
An important moral trait in a free country is tolerance. It is the corollary of the moral principle of liberty: Mind your own business and accept others as they are unless they do something to infringe on your own freedoms and actions. |
They do, though. They tax the system with their inordinate amount of healthcare necessary. My sister is a medic and my cousin is the doctor 2nd in command in a certain citywide program that shall remain unnamed. Obese people cost far more than the fit, and often tend to be less well off, using public funds to pay for treatment. |
I remember hearing about a study some time back that actually refuted this. How is this possible? Doesn't it seem very counter-intuitive? Well, they came to the conclusion that fit people lived longer on average, and in the end they developed health issues that required more costly treatment. I don't remember what those issues were, exactly, but cancer is probably on the list. The really unhealthy people either died early or developed less costly medical disorders.
Now, I am not saying that everyone should be fat and/or unhealthy. Just some food for thought.  Sorry I can't reference the study, either. I don't know what it was called or where to find it. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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See my edit to the above post, so people don't think that I think fat people are immoral or wrong, which is a running gag on this site.
There are plenty of studies that show plenty of opposing things, but when it comes down to it, paramedics are forced to chair lift obese down stairs. My tax money (yes, I still have to pay taxes in the US, though not on my Korean income) pays for this, and losing weight is something that these people should strive to do. This doubles the amount of manpower necessary. My cousin says a very large part of the city's emergency healthcare budget goes towards the obese. My sister hates fat people. She's had to carry 400+lb people with the help of one other medic down multiple flights of stairs on more occasions than she can count.
Anyway, some fat is good. SOME fat will help you if you do get cancer or other terminal diseases. FUPA and back boobs are not good. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
You just made an good example. generally speaking, Americans eat too much, that is the REAL problem, Korean food is not healthier than western food, whatever good food once over-consumed is harmful. |
Exactly, a child sized Mcdonalds meal in the US is about the same size as large sized adult in Korea. Restaurants in the US purposely give large portions just so their customer stomachs will expand and require more of their product, more often to feel satisfied. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
| Panda wrote: |
You just made an good example. generally speaking, Americans eat too much, that is the REAL problem, Korean food is not healthier than western food, whatever good food once over-consumed is harmful. |
Exactly, a child sized Mcdonalds meal in the US is about the same size as large sized adult in Korea. Restaurants in the US purposely give large portions just so their customer stomachs will expand and require more of their product, more often to feel satisfied. |
You think that's why they give large portions??!!
I'd say it's more likely because all the restaurant chains are in fierce competition with each other and a chain with larger portions will usually win customers over a chain with smaller portions. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| blade wrote: |
| Panda wrote: |
You just made an good example. generally speaking, Americans eat too much, that is the REAL problem, Korean food is not healthier than western food, whatever good food once over-consumed is harmful. |
Exactly, a child sized Mcdonalds meal in the US is about the same size as large sized adult in Korea. Restaurants in the US purposely give large portions just so their customer stomachs will expand and require more of their product, more often to feel satisfied. |
You think that's why they give large portions??!!
I'd say it's more likely because all the restaurant chains are in fierce competition with each other and a chain with larger portions will usually win customers over a chain with smaller portions. |
How about lower prices and normal portions? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| blade wrote: |
| Panda wrote: |
You just made an good example. generally speaking, Americans eat too much, that is the REAL problem, Korean food is not healthier than western food, whatever good food once over-consumed is harmful. |
Exactly, a child sized Mcdonalds meal in the US is about the same size as large sized adult in Korea. Restaurants in the US purposely give large portions just so their customer stomachs will expand and require more of their product, more often to feel satisfied. |
You think that's why they give large portions??!!
I'd say it's more likely because all the restaurant chains are in fierce competition with each other and a chain with larger portions will usually win customers over a chain with smaller portions. |
How about lower prices and normal portions? |
Lower prices and normal portions would result in the same price per unit of food, but fewer total units sold. It is almost always better for a company to increase portions rather than reduce price, at least from an economic perspective. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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I hear you, Fox. They'd definitely get the girlfriend vote, though.
Huge portions (hehe) actually keep me from going to certain restaurants. I'd rather quality over quantity.
Unless I'm ordering a pizza or Chinese food, I want smaller portions at mealtimes. Only pizza and leftover Chinese (of the American style) taste good a second and third time. Cold Chinese is one of the best breakfasts possible. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Fox is right. Serve more and charge more, because there are already fixed costs. Its as much a function of the competitiveness and tight margins in the restaurant industry as anything else.
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Huge portions (hehe) actually keep me from going to certain restaurants. I'd rather quality over quantity.
Unless I'm ordering a pizza or Chinese food, I want smaller portions at mealtimes. Only pizza and leftover Chinese (of the American style) taste good a second and third time. Cold Chinese is one of the best breakfasts possible. |
If only economic considerations took you personally into consideration. But they don't. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Fox is right. Serve more and charge more, because there are already fixed costs. Its as much a function of the competitiveness and tight margins in the restaurant industry as anything else.
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Huge portions (hehe) actually keep me from going to certain restaurants. I'd rather quality over quantity.
Unless I'm ordering a pizza or Chinese food, I want smaller portions at mealtimes. Only pizza and leftover Chinese (of the American style) taste good a second and third time. Cold Chinese is one of the best breakfasts possible. |
If only economic considerations took you personally into consideration. But they don't. |
Some places do. I'm the target audience for a handful or two restaurants in NYC. I miss Grey Dog... |
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