Korean Job Discussion Forums

JMO · Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu

We have a very lenient curve (40/40/20) which i still had problems with this semester. Normally student performance tail off after mid term, so i make my mid term easier(to keep them motivated) and my final harder. Strangely enough my students did worse than expected for mid term but much better in finals and I ended up with a few situations were i had 10/11 As for 8/9 spots.

If students complain, I will tell them the truth. You had the 10th best score in the class so you had to get a B+. Come to my office next week and I'll show you the 9th best exams compared to yours. i rarely get complaints though as my students know how the curve works. This time I expect a few because I had a lot of students from good majors.

Next semester, I'm going to do what my coworker does. He makes his exams very hard and always curves up at the end. I had a chance to see how he did it the other day and it makes sense. Students are much less likely to be pissed that way.

jvalmer · Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Kwangjuchicken

jvalmer · Joined: 06 Jun 2003

geldedgoat · Joined: 05 Mar 2009

Kwangjuchicken · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:13 pm Post subject:

2.5 years at current university. Only had one ask about if grade was a mistake. And, it was. He was supposed to have BO I put C0 when putting them on the computer. With my bad eyes, I check over and over; however, one slipped by. Other than that, no problems. They all know the system. They also know I, as they do, do not like it. Actually, some students have told me it (CURVE) is a good idea because it makes them more competitive and they learn more. Most do not like it. Thus, I am on their side Wink

and, as all the "smart teachers" make my view on that topic well known to my students. 11.5 years in Korea Shocked

you learn a few tricks. Very Happy

lawyertood · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject:

At my school we have mostly absolute grading. For some reason this gives the students the idea that because I CAN give as many A grades as I want, that I SHOULD, earned or not. I do not doubt that many Korean professors give out more high grades under this scheme.

I think perhaps, that the relative grading scheme put in place by universities is used to make sure professors do not just give high grades out like candy. When I have worked in a relative grading scheme I did not have to give the full percentage of high grades, however, I was limited to a maximum. Fair or not, I would let the student who was disappointed know where their place was and say that, unfortunately, university policy, in addition to their output relative to other students in the class, determined their grade.

Tamada · Joined: 02 Nov 2008

This semester I've had one particularly awful class.

Standard student behavior in this class =

frequently not bringing the textbook
sleeping in class
handing in late work or no work
texting in class
laughing, joking, chatting with friends throughout the lesson
continually late
never ever pariticipating (90% of class)

So for this particular class, I went wayyyy under the curve.

20% of the grade is for particpation, behavior and attitude, so this class got what they deserved at the end of the semester.

I also agree with the above poster, that the curve does stop certain profs(Korean and Foreign) from dishing out A grades to the whole class.

calicoe · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Location: South Korea

Yeah, I'm currently going through this and I need some advice. The grade changing period is coming up and I am weighing possibilities.

My university also requires the downward curve, which is absolutely awful, but we do not have a choice because we cannot close out grading on the campus website without implementing it.

The problem becomes more severe with large classes, especially those who are known to be good students and study, because you then have a bunch of clustered averages. So, I try to use things like class participation points and group work/presentations to set them apart.

My current dilemma is this: I have one large class of mostly good students where I was required to to give three C grades. Two of those grades were easier, but the last one was more difficult, but I had to do it. Of course, that student has written to me complaining.

I have also received a bunch of email from almost every B to B+ student requesting a bump up. We are only allowed to give a certain amount of A and B+ grades, but this year I didn't fill up all the options on the top.

Some of these students have followed me from the last semester, which was my first, where I did fill up all possible slots for grades, so that they were very inflated. This year, they can see on the website that all of the slots have not been filled, so they are bugging me.

However, I have already inflated grades in my grading of their work, and I feel that if the people in the C grade slots don't get a benefit of a double bump, why should everyone else?

But still, there is a part of me that feels I shouldn't try to change the system, but just go with the flow and bump up everyone that I can, and just leave the C people to roast, since I can't do anything about it. Certainly would be easier, because there is always the very distinct possibility that these little whiners are going to go off to the Administration somewhere and complain about me or make trouble, which always reflects badly on us, regardless of who is in the right. Some of the averages are only two or three points away from each other, but I didn't make the system!

I need the advice of some experienced Korean uni voices out there: Should I go back to my former way, and surely the way that they expected, by just filling all possible higher grade slots all the way down the list, or hold my ground?

Either way, it seems that someone is going to complain.

Help!

Tamada · Joined: 02 Nov 2008

I had around 20 emails from students complaining about their grade. I didn't change one single grade. Booo hoooo if they are unhappy, frankly I couldn't care less. Smile

blm · Joined: 11 Nov 2010

calicoe · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Location: South Korea

uh, right. Let's see ... because we are not in the West, and if you don't please the crowd here, they have a way of BLAMING and SHAMING you and bringing the administration down on you.

Think I am joking? Instructors here will eventually get fired if students write bad evaluations, and the students directly use evaluations as revenge for their grades. We cannot simply grade the way we want, or the way we think they should be graded because no one or very few will receive a high grade, and then they will pester you and complain, and if they do it enough the administration will side with them and brand you a troublemaker.

Tamada · Joined: 02 Nov 2008

calicoe · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Location: South Korea

Yeah, I definitely agree with you on principle. I would much rather give out real grades, because it is much easier as far as I'm concerned.

And, I am on here seeking feedback, but I know how to face confrontations with students. However, I do like being employed, and I DO NOT want to go through a grade appeal, at any cost.

I think a very big problem for me is the required downward curve. If the truth be told, I DO NOT feel confident about it this semester. I had to pull down one student who was easily a B, and there was very little difference between him and another student. I will have to pull out his class participation points, and the fact that he didn't do as well as others on the midterm.

I'm not sure how such a close call would look in a grade appeal, quite frankly.

edit: But, ultimately, you are right, I don't want to be an indentured servant of uni students. I am trying to get away from the grade inflation, so the resistance will be fierce. However, I would feel stronger without the artificial downward curve, I guess. I will just blame it on the school policy, which is the truth.