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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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 Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| A passport is the dumbest thing we can support having. We spend so much time removing physical walls, but we don't do anything to remove the imagined ones held up by things like nationality, currency, armies, and yes PASSPORTS!! |
So you are proposing we do away with currencies, countries, passports, nationalities? Pretty radical don't you think? |
"It comes down to what battles you want to fight" - Larken Rose
http://www.larkenrose.com/ |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Having a national ID number is useful. I wish the states would do away with state IDs and issue national ones. |
We already have a national id number. How would getting rid of state ids be any more useful? |
I know this. It's called a social security number. I was saying that it IS useful. Some were arguing that it shouldn't be used for things besides pension.
Getting rid of state IDs would make faking a Florida or North Carolina ID for a minor in California or New York more difficult. A standard National ID would be better. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Would you actually want to go to all that trouble just to get a passport? |
I guess you don't understand what the word "optional" means? |
I know what it means. I also know that if other countries are aware that you can have two types of passport, they'll require you to have the more comprehensive one. And which extra data are you going to have on it? Just the information that Korea wants you to have on it? Or are you going to also include all the information that various other countries want you to acquire before getting a visa? Either way, you're still going to have to get the same paperwork done with a special passport, as you would with a regular one. The difference is that with a special passport you'll have to also get the extra stuff that other countries want for their visas. And if that passport is more than 6 months old, will Korean immigration still accept it as proof? Or will they then ask you to get all those documents again? But at the end of it, you'll still be walking around with a document that gives a complete description of you and your history (and is essentially worth 5000 USD) that a whole slew of people can take a look at. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Robbo wrote: |
| Hey, if you're dirty, you're dirty. If you are a law abiding person there is no reason to worry. |
So, do you close the curtains at your house? Do you post a copy of your medical exam and university transcripts to your blog? You aren't doing anything dirty that you want to hide, are you?
Governments use that same argument that you put forward. They do it because they need a way to justify snooping on you and they think it's a nice clear argument that you can't debate without admitting that you have ever done something bad. What it doesn't address is the issue of privacy.
It's also interesting to note that the same governments who use that argument are usually also the most secretive about their own back room dealings behind closed doors. |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Troglodyte,
Actually Canada and the US do have "a second type of passport" of sorts. It's called a NEXUS Card. And once approved, it allows travelers to cross borders with minimal questions. Basically, you've been "pre-approved" for frequent travel. You have to apply for this card, show documentation, prove that you are not a risk. I don't know the full details, but I would assume you need to show you have stable employment, plenty of assets, a clean record etc...
But even though this card exists, the US nor Canada does not require that EVERY traveler obtain one. But they do take extra steps before allowing entry.
And just for the record: any "extra" passport information would be digital. All passports would look and feel the same. But additional information would pop up when scanned by an authorized authority.
And these "optional" components aren't just for Korea. It's standard procedure for a lot of VISAs that criminal and Health checks be completed. The bond is merely beneficial for travels on one-way tickets.
And as for passports expiring and the bond, well, this is easy to remedy. Passport Canada could automatically return the money on a set date, or merely re-invest. Whatever was agreed upon.
And if you think people would be kidnapped over 5K, well, the average N. American is worth more than 5K. So basically anyone could be kidnapped and held for a far greater ransom. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
Troglodyte,
Actually Canada and the US do have "a second type of passport" of sorts. It's called a NEXUS Card. And once approved, it allows travelers to cross borders with minimal questions. Basically, you've been "pre-approved" for frequent travel. You have to apply for this card, show documentation, prove that you are not a risk. I don't know the full details, but I would assume you need to show you have stable employment, plenty of assets, a clean record etc...
But even though this card exists, the US nor Canada does not require that EVERY traveler obtain one. But they do take extra steps before allowing entry.
And just for the record: any "extra" passport information would be digital. All passports would look and feel the same. But additional information would pop up when scanned by an authorized authority.
And these "optional" components aren't just for Korea. It's standard procedure for a lot of VISAs that criminal and Health checks be completed. The bond is merely beneficial for travels on one-way tickets.
And as for passports expiring and the bond, well, this is easy to remedy. Passport Canada could automatically return the money on a set date, or merely re-invest. Whatever was agreed upon.
And if you think people would be kidnapped over 5K, well, the average N. American is worth more than 5K. So basically anyone could be kidnapped and held for a far greater ransom. |
I'm aware of the Nexus pass. Are YOU aware that in addition to the information which you suggested putting on the passport, it also contains information such as your address, employment and immigration history? AND.... all of that information is automatically shared with your home country (Canada in your case) and the other country (in your case America) - that's the immigration AND police in both countries. And for added convenience, it uses a radio frequency ID. Isn't that wonderful?
The Nexus pass is really only used for people who routinely cross the US-Canada border. e.g. truck drivers and commuters so that they can save 10 minutes of waiting. It's not used for visas and such. You must already have access to both countries and residence in one of them in order to get a Nexus pass.
But even if such a passport existed, under current regulations, Korea still wouldn't recognize it for getting an E2 if it was more than 6 months old. And although other countries usually have similar requirements for residence visas, they are NOT all the same. Trust me, I've gotten more a few of them in my day.
Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that someone would kidnap you for $5000. I was suggesting that they'd steal your passport and use it for fraud to try to get the money. Or try to force you to use the money on it (e.g. some "special tax"). |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Revolutionizing the Passport |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
These are my ideas for revolutionizing the passport:
(2) Criminal Record Indicator, 5 point risk indicator, automatically updates as time passes. e.g. 1 = clean; 2 = small offenses; 3 etc... After two years, or whatnot, an indicator of 2 could become 1. A 3 could become a 2. Obviously, certain crimes would necessitate that an individual could not possess a passport.
... |
Under current Korean visa regulations...the Criminal check can be no older than six months. After six months it becomes worthless. So basically you would end up carrying a piece of info in your passport that does you no good whatsoever for the next 5 or 10 years depending on your country. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Revolutionizing the Passport |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
These are my ideas for revolutionizing the passport:
(2) Criminal Record Indicator, 5 point risk indicator, automatically updates as time passes. e.g. 1 = clean; 2 = small offenses; 3 etc... After two years, or whatnot, an indicator of 2 could become 1. A 3 could become a 2. Obviously, certain crimes would necessitate that an individual could not possess a passport.
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Under current Korean visa regulations...the Criminal check can be no older than six months. After six months it becomes worthless. So basically you would end up carrying a piece of info in your passport that does you no good whatsoever for the next 5 or 10 years depending on your country. |
But for a fee, it could be automatically updated ever 6 months. With the fingerprints already done, and our names in the system, it could be easy enough to have an auto-renewing national CBS implemented to such a passport. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Revolutionizing the Passport |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
These are my ideas for revolutionizing the passport:
(2) Criminal Record Indicator, 5 point risk indicator, automatically updates as time passes. e.g. 1 = clean; 2 = small offenses; 3 etc... After two years, or whatnot, an indicator of 2 could become 1. A 3 could become a 2. Obviously, certain crimes would necessitate that an individual could not possess a passport.
... |
Under current Korean visa regulations...the Criminal check can be no older than six months. After six months it becomes worthless. So basically you would end up carrying a piece of info in your passport that does you no good whatsoever for the next 5 or 10 years depending on your country. |
But for a fee, it could be automatically updated ever 6 months. With the fingerprints already done, and our names in the system, it could be easy enough to have an auto-renewing national CBS implemented to such a passport. |
We have our fingerprints and our names in the system already...still hasn't stopped them from asking for a new CBC every time we change jobs. Besides which it is a NEW CBC which is the requirement...not an auto-renewing one. Also how would this auto-renewing take place? I highly doubt that Korea is going to build specialized machines or modify the ones they have now so that they can read this information just for a few foreigners. We'd have to go back to our home countries every six months. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Revolutionizing the Passport |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
These are my ideas for revolutionizing the passport:
(2) Criminal Record Indicator, 5 point risk indicator, automatically updates as time passes. e.g. 1 = clean; 2 = small offenses; 3 etc... After two years, or whatnot, an indicator of 2 could become 1. A 3 could become a 2. Obviously, certain crimes would necessitate that an individual could not possess a passport.
... |
Under current Korean visa regulations...the Criminal check can be no older than six months. After six months it becomes worthless. So basically you would end up carrying a piece of info in your passport that does you no good whatsoever for the next 5 or 10 years depending on your country. |
But for a fee, it could be automatically updated ever 6 months. With the fingerprints already done, and our names in the system, it could be easy enough to have an auto-renewing national CBS implemented to such a passport. |
We have our fingerprints and our names in the system already...still hasn't stopped them from asking for a new CBC every time we change jobs. Besides which it is a NEW CBC which is the requirement...not an auto-renewing one. Also how would this auto-renewing take place? I highly doubt that Korea is going to build specialized machines or modify the ones they have now so that they can read this information just for a few foreigners. We'd have to go back to our home countries every six months. |
I think that the easiest thing would be if k-immi just kept our records on file instead of tossing them each time and asking us to resubmit them every time we change jobs. They could also use their brains and realize that we can't commit a crime in our home countries if we haven't even left Korea or that our university transcripts and diploma aren't going to change from time to time. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not talking about Korean immi changing their machines. It should be a worldwide thing. New passports for all. All criminal records kept on a database and our passport electronic files updated every 6 months or so.
It won't happen in the near future, but it would be useful for all. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I'm not talking about Korean immi changing their machines. It should be a worldwide thing. New passports for all. All criminal records kept on a database and our passport electronic files updated every 6 months or so.
It won't happen in the near future, but it would be useful for all. |
I think that given the lack of privacy and security in most countries, having your national records made international in a huge database, would be a very BAD idea. Plus, that's only one step away from recording WHERE you've been because that relates very closely to which jurisdiction you're under. That is definitely something that you don't want to have in an international database.
If there were an international database of criminal records, how would it be standardized? How would someone compensate for the fact that "crimes" are not the same everywhere? How about the fact that some countries have very extraterritorial laws? Imagine that you're already in the country when some cop pulls you over for a breath test or speeding ticket and realizes that you've in fact got a note on your criminal record for something that was a wrist slap offence where you committed it but is a jail time offence in your host country? What about when you get arrested for (or even found guilty of) a crime in some corrupt country, when in fact you're innocent? Would you want the possibility that it would go on your international record? |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Name, sex, date & place of birth, a photo. Thats all the personal data a fresh passport shows. Simple & effective.
Why on earth screw it up with a load of additional detail? |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
Name, sex, date & place of birth, a photo. Thats all the personal data a fresh passport shows. Simple & effective.
Why on earth screw it up with a load of additional detail? |
I think we need to give passports your special formula and make them change into any type of info. we need for anything. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
I'm not talking about Korean immi changing their machines. It should be a worldwide thing. New passports for all. All criminal records kept on a database and our passport electronic files updated every 6 months or so.
It won't happen in the near future, but it would be useful for all. |
I think that given the lack of privacy and security in most countries, having your national records made international in a huge database, would be a very BAD idea. Plus, that's only one step away from recording WHERE you've been because that relates very closely to which jurisdiction you're under. That is definitely something that you don't want to have in an international database.
If there were an international database of criminal records, how would it be standardized? How would someone compensate for the fact that "crimes" are not the same everywhere? How about the fact that some countries have very extraterritorial laws? Imagine that you're already in the country when some cop pulls you over for a breath test or speeding ticket and realizes that you've in fact got a note on your criminal record for something that was a wrist slap offence where you committed it but is a jail time offence in your host country? What about when you get arrested for (or even found guilty of) a crime in some corrupt country, when in fact you're innocent? Would you want the possibility that it would go on your international record? |
Not an international database of criminal records. A way for all countries' immigration checks to scan your passport, which would have all of your home country's info.
I guess the fact that I have absolutely nothing on my record -- not even jaywalking -- makes me less wary.
Anyway, many of you seem very paranoid, so I'll leave you be. Enjoy your evening. |
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