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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Korean Immigration has already stated that they will not automatically deport someone for having the disease... |
But they also stated that they would inform your employer. And guess what happens after that? |
Which is exactly why I said "For us English teachers...not so much." |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Didnt read that far back. Sorry. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Time Magazine on South Korea's English Teachers HIV/AIDS |
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You could say the same thing about a whole host of issues across the globe.
How do you know definitively that 'most people' won't 'really care'? Aren't you over generalising a little by speaking for 'most people'?
Put it this way, if nobody cared why would it be in Time magazine in the first place?
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
However no one outside of English teachers here and their families will really care...as they just can't relate to this. And especially given the global turndown, most people have other things to think of.
And so it goes. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Time Magazine on South Korea's English Teachers HIV/AIDS |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
You could say the same thing about a whole host of issues across the globe.
1. How do you know definitively that 'most people' won't 'really care'?
2. Aren't you over generalising a little by speaking for 'most people'?
3. Put it this way, if nobody cared why would it be in Time magazine in the first place?
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(numbers above are mine for reference.
1. How do I know? Out of the six billion+ people in the world...most don't read TIME or other magazines. Many of these people live on 1-2 dollars a day. Likely they've never heard about Westerners coming to live and work in Korea...and wouldn't care about our problems if they did. In fact I bet most of them would be willing to change places with us in a heartbeat.
2. It's not a generalization but a fact. (see above.) And for those who have read it...where are the marches in the streets, the protests, the letter writing to their respective governments?
3. It's called a slow news day. Most people have other things to think about. If it doesn't affect them directly they think "Hmm that's interesting." And then turn the page.
Want to bet your next month's paycheck that something will change because of this article?
Yeah, I didn't think so... |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Time Magazine on South Korea's English Teachers HIV/AIDS |
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[1] you have pretty much defeated yourself here. Seeing as most people don't (or should that be 'cant') read this or any other magazine does that devalue the content of that magazine per'se?? I don't think it does somehow, do you?
By your logic all magazines and other publications would be redundant and so would their content simpy because their readerships numbers are below the 3bn mark (I presume).
Also, you are saying that they are ignorant of westerners coming to Korea + all related issues, therefore they have no interest. But, er hmmm, is that not the point of news, informing people about what is going on outside of their immediate environment.
[2] the arrogance of the man. A fact, a fact. You are being entangled in your own semantics I am afraid Urban Myth. You cannot speak for 'most people', not in a month of Sundays does the Urban Myth speak for most people. In fact how can anyone speak for most people.
[3] why do you have to deflect the argument always?? I never mentioend anything about change but seeing as you did I would state that just because 'nothing changes' doesn't mitigate either 1) the validity of what is being written, 2) the strength of your arguments. Again, ill put the very same arguments to you once more, are other news-worthy issues devalued because people are not in the streets demonstrating against them?? Ofcourse not and it is lunacy to affirm otherwise.
Slow news day eh?! There is plenty happening across the world. Where do you want to begin??
I would trust a Time magazine's editor's opinion ahead of your own anyday. I would also trust 반기문 who as the UN Secretary general no less addressed this very same issue with the Prime Minister of South Korea barely 6 weeks ago.
You chastise people for making generalzations about Koreans and then go on to the very same with, err, the entire world. A case of the kettle calling the pot black methinks.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| stevieg4ever wrote: |
You could say the same thing about a whole host of issues across the globe.
1. How do you know definitively that 'most people' won't 'really care'?
2. Aren't you over generalising a little by speaking for 'most people'?
3. Put it this way, if nobody cared why would it be in Time magazine in the first place?
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(numbers above are mine for reference.
1. How do I know? Out of the six billion+ people in the world...most don't read TIME or other magazines. Many of these people live on 1-2 dollars a day. Likely they've never heard about Westerners coming to live and work in Korea...and wouldn't care about our problems if they did. In fact I bet most of them would be willing to change places with us in a heartbeat.
2. It's not a generalization but a fact. (see above.) And for those who have read it...where are the marches in the streets, the protests, the letter writing to their respective governments?
3. It's called a slow news day. Most people have other things to think about. If it doesn't affect them directly they think "Hmm that's interesting." And then turn the page.
Want to bet your next month's paycheck that something will change because of this article?
Yeah, I didn't think so... |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| They treat all E-2 visa holders the same, regardless of ethnicity. Nothing to do with not proving Korean ethnicity for an E-2 visa. Just like any other visa, if you meet the criteria, you'll get it, otherwise you won't. Ethnicity with the E-2 has nothing to do with it. |
E-2s are those who have not proven their Korean ethnicity. F-4s are those who have. F-2s are those who have proven they're 'Korean enough' by marrying an ethnic Korean. Clearly ethnicity has a lot to do with it.
The points system is an interesting addition that may prove to be an exception, but, not being automatic, may prove to have similar results to the overseas offspring of Taiwanese-Koreans who are repeatedly denied F-4 status. Time will tell.
If you want to make the argument that it's entirely appropriate for these visa requirements and regulations to be based on ethnicity, I'd be open to that. ...I won't agree, but that's at least a discussion we could have. But to claim that 'ethnicity has nothing to do with it' is simply, flat-out wrong. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| E-2s are those who have not proven their Korean ethnicity. |
E-2's are for foreign language instructors, nothing to do with ethnicity. If you happen to be an ethnic Korean and meet the requirements to get an E-2, then you'll get an E-2. If you're not an ethnic Korean and meet the requirements to get an E-2, you'll get an E-2. Again, ethnicity has nothing to do with getting an E-2.
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| F-4s are those who have. F-2s are those who have proven they're 'Korean enough' by marrying an ethnic Korean. Clearly ethnicity has a lot to do with it. |
I wasn't arguing about these class of visas, you are right some of the F-class visas are based on ethnicity, but it has nothing to do with the the E-2 visa.
You claimed the E-2 is based on ethnicity, it simply isn't. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Time Magazine on South Korea's English Teachers HIV/AIDS |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
[1] you have pretty much defeated yourself here. Seeing as most people don't (or should that be 'cant') read this or any other magazine does that devalue the content of that magazine per'se?? I don't think it does somehow, do you?
By your logic all magazines and other publications would be redundant and so would their content simpy because their readerships numbers are below the 3bn mark (I presume).
Also, you are saying that they are ignorant of westerners coming to Korea + all related issues, therefore they have no interest. But, er hmmm, is that not the point of news, informing people about what is going on outside of their immediate environment.
[2] the arrogance of the man. A fact, a fact. You are being entangled in your own semantics I am afraid Urban Myth. You cannot speak for 'most people', not in a month of Sundays does the Urban Myth speak for most people. In fact how can anyone speak for most people?
] |
So first you agree with me that most people don't/can't read TIME and then you chastise me for saying that?
Hello? Logic much?
Speaking for most people does NOT mean that you speak for them on ALL issues. The only issue I spoke for on most people was that they do not read TIME magazine which you agreed with.
And no that does not devalue the content and I never said it did so stop straw manning me. How many times do I have to ask you that?
Or would you like me to start complaining about things YOU never said? Read and respond to what I wrote please. I'm not interested in responding to fabrications you pull out of thin air. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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And someone should e-mail TIME and tell them to get their story straight.
Not ALL foreign teachers are required to take the drug tests. Only E-2's or those working at a public school. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| E-2's are for foreign language instructors, nothing to do with ethnicity. |
Schools can employ E-2s, F-2s, and F-4s as foreign language instructors (or lie, break the law, and employ someone else). The only difference between these groups is proven ethnicity and/or proven 'Koreanness.'
This apparently needs to be repeated:
| Quote: |
| If you want to make the argument that it's entirely appropriate for these visa requirements and regulations to be based on ethnicity, I'd be open to that. ...I won't agree, but that's at least a discussion we could have. But to claim that 'ethnicity has nothing to do with it' is simply, flat-out wrong. |
If you can and do prove your Korean ethnicity to Kimmi, you will not be given an E-2 visa. Also, two plus two does not equal five.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And someone should e-mail TIME and tell them to get their story straight.
Not ALL foreign teachers are required to take the drug tests. Only E-2's or those working at a public school. |
From the article: "Though the reports were never substantiated, the government began to require that all foreign teachers get tested for HIV, including those who were already in the country. [...] Three years later, the law persists, though ethnic Koreans are exempted, regardless of where they are born or raised."
I see little need* for a correction here. If the government has proof of an individual's Korean ethnicity, no tests will be issued (outside of public schools, but then again, that really is all foreign teachers). It just so happens that the only way for a foreign Korean to prove his ethnicity is to provide documents and apply for an F-4 visa.
*The only additional information they should provide is a brief inclusion of F-2s, but it really isn't necessary. The crux of the story still holds true, that the government intentionally and maliciously targets the non-Korean foreign teacher community with these and other visa regulations. Begging for corrections like this is just splitting hairs on a bald cat. |
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Los Angeloser
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And someone should e-mail TIME and tell them to get their story straight.
Not ALL foreign teachers are required to take the drug tests. Only E-2's or those working at a public school. |
I think you need to read the piece again. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And someone should e-mail TIME and tell them to get their story straight.
Not ALL foreign teachers are required to take the drug tests. Only E-2's or those working at a public school. |
Why don't you post in the comments section under the article? |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Time Magazine on South Korea's English Teachers HIV/AIDS |
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| madoka wrote: |
Forget the AIDS test. Koreans should strictly enforce a reading comprehension test. That will eliminate a good 70% of Dave posters. Add a common sense section and you've cut out another 20%.  |
There can be only one.
Hint: It's you.
You are the one, madoka.
Also, you're hilarious. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And someone should e-mail TIME and tell them to get their story straight.
Not ALL foreign teachers are required to take the drug tests. Only E-2's or those working at a public school. |
I think you need to read the piece again. |
There are plenty of F-2's here who are foreign teachers and who do not work at public schools. They are not required to take the test. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Additionally do most Koreans think HIV/AIDs and STDs are a foreigner only thing or is this an Anti-English Spectrum belief?
Be safe and wear/make your man wear a rubber. Knew one guy that flew back home because he was pretty sure he got AIDs from some Korean guy he was with.
Last edited by sojusucks on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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