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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: A rapidly closing society |
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http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/
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�Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave� warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the �full body scanners� and the �enhanced pat down� procedures will be taken into custody.
Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff�s office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects, held until they are convinced they don�t pose a terror threat. |
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/101122_tsa.htm
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It doesn�t take a bureaucrat long to create an empire. John Pistole, the FBI agent who took over the Transportation Security Administration on July 1 told USA Today 16 days later that protecting trains and subways from terrorist attacks will be as high a priority for him as air travel.
It is difficult to imagine New Yorkers being porno-screened and sexually groped on crowed subway platforms or showing up an hour or two in advance for clearance for a 15 minute subway ride, but once bureaucrats get the bit in their teeth they take absurdity to its logical conclusion. Buses will be next, although it is even more difficult to imagine open air bus stops turned into security zones with screeners and gropers inspecting passengers before they board.
Will taxi passengers be next? In those Muslim lands whose citizens the US government has been slaughtering for years, favorite weapons for retaliating against the Americans are car and truck bombs. How long before Pistole announces that the TSA Gestapo is setting up roadblocks on city streets, highways and interstates to check cars for bombs?
That 15 minute trip to the grocery store then becomes an all day affair.
Indeed, it has already begun. Last September agents from Homeland Security, TSA, and the US Department of Transportation, assisted by the Douglas County Sheriff�s Office, conducted a counter-terrorism operation on busy Interstate 20 just west of Atlanta, Georgia. Designated VIPER (Visible Inter-mobile Prevention and Response), the operation required all trucks to stop to be screened for bombs. Federal agents used dogs, screening devices, and a large drive-through bomb detection machine. Imagine what the delays did to delivery schedules and truckers� bottom lines.
There are also news reports of federal trucks equipped with backscatter X-ray devices that secretly scan cars and pedestrians. |
Did the terrorists win? Looks like. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Isn't someone supposed to inject here the pretext for whittling away so many of our freedoms,
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| �Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave� warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the �full body scanners� and the �enhanced pat down� procedures will be taken into custody. |
If this is true, its probably unconstitutional.
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| A screening of passengers and of the articles that will be accessible to them in flight does not exceed constitutional limitations provided that the screening process is no more extensive nor intensive than necessary, in the light of current technology, to detect the presence of weapons or explosives, that it is confined in good faith to that purpose, and that potential passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly |
Re-stated:
"An airport screening search is reasonable if:
(1) it is no more extensive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives;
(2) it is confined in good faith to that purpose; and
(3) passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly."
There's still a question of inherent notice. Did passengers consent upon purchase of the ticket? Still, the way its worded in Davis suggests not.
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| Since a compelled search of persons who elect not to board would not contribute to barring weapons and explosives from the plane, it could serve only the purpose of apprehending violators of either the criminal prohibition against attempting to board an aircraft while carrying a concealed weapon, 49 U.S.C. � 1472(l), or some other criminal statute. Such searches would be criminal *912 investigations subject to the warrant and probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Well, the constitution is living, no? Maybe the spirit of the constitution now supports indefinite detention of people who don't want to be molested?
More seriously, I read that the TSA is expanding into shopping malls. At Wal-Mart there are videos of the Napolitano asking shoppers to report anything "suspicious". What in the world will a Wal Mart shopper not find suspicious? When I enter a Wal Mart I'm immediately suspicious of every human I pass: http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
One terrorist attack and the country sheds her sanity? Americans are far more confident and calm as a people than her elite allows. |
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excaza
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: Re: A rapidly closing society |
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| Why would you enter the checkpoint and then refuse to be searched? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: Re: A rapidly closing society |
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| excaza wrote: |
| Why would you enter the checkpoint and then refuse to be searched? |
Withdrawal of consent. It's permitted in almost all other 4th and 5th Amendment contexts. Of course, you wouldn't be able to board.
Last edited by Kuros on Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe you weren't aware of the new search methods, maybe you changed your mind about it at the last minute . . . but no, it's probably cause you're a terrorist. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the �full body scanners� and the �enhanced pat down� procedures will be taken into custody. |
I call BS on this one, particularly considering that they quote "TSA officials" rather than anyone in particular. You just wouldn't be allowed on the flight. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I think these rules will be relaxed before the end of the year. I dont think the T.S.A. has the authority to imprison any one. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to trains and subways this is simply fear-mongering.
The TSA is NOT going to require such passengers to be screened...in fact they've stated in a written statement that they are not even "considering" it.
"While the agency [TSA] has imposed stringent screening of air passengers at the nation's 450 commercial airports, it says it has no similar plans for rail passengers"
"And the TSA is not considering "requiring" it [screening]"
They have instituted some random screening but between questions about its effectiveness and lawmakers calling for funds to be stopped for this until a fully funded federal program exists means it's anybody's guess how long this will last.
Move along nothing to see here.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2010-12-27-railsecurity27_CV_N.htm |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Severely OT: It seems like lately half the world is getting way too big for the britches. Everybody's ornery.
I've also noticed something since I've been back - America is a universe unto itself. The MSM may talk about how we're getting our collective asses handed to us, but the ensuing alarm/angst is mainly directed at each other.
Example would be that NK is big news, but really the general level of American interest on-the-street could be compared to your brother getting a mild case of food poisoning while on vacation in Belize.
^ If that doesn't jive, I'm with you - I'm still trying to figure it out myself. Maybe what I'm saying is that Americans make themselves easy prey for this stuff because I think we tend to divorce ourselves from the rest of the world and, as a result, also sometimes common sense. I think this leads some to suspect that Americans are gullible dolts (this being the popular view).
(.........trying to think of a persuasive pro-American comment........) |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:47 am Post subject: Re: A rapidly closing society |
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| excaza wrote: |
| Why would you enter the checkpoint and then refuse to be searched? |
That's something I might very well do, if I hadn't been warned beforehand that I would be groped. For people raised in an atmosphere of liberty, it would seem a reasonable assumption that your basic privacy would be respected, and it's an outrageous injustice that they can hold people without trial merely for refusing to submit to humiliation. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone here actually flown domestic in America recently? How bad is it? Cos if there's a chance it could be like the following, then plenty of people will not want to go:
http://www.readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/123-123/4439-the-tsas-state-mandated-molestation
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Actions that violate FCC standards are embraced by the TSA. "Mary in Texas" reported:
The TSA agent used her hands to feel under and between my breasts. She then rammed her hand up into my crotch until it jammed into my pubic bone ... I was touched in the pubic region in between my labia ... She then moved her hand across my pubic region and down the inner part of my upper thigh to the floor. She repeated this procedure on the other side. I was shocked and broke into tears.
A woman named Chris said:
"In the four times she explored the area where my inner thigh met my crotch, she touched my labia each time, and one pass made contact with my clitoris, through two layers of clothing. I told her I felt humiliated, assaulted and abused ... In my work as a nurse, if I did what the TSA did against a patient's will it would be considered assault and battery, and I did not see how the TSA should have different rules."
Recipients of such treatment aren't allowed to show distress. Melissa from Massachusetts did anyway:
"I was shaking and crying the entire time. I was begging them to hurry up but they kept stopping and telling me to calm down. It is impossible to gain composure when a stranger has her hands in your underwear." |
God knows it's annoying enough in the rest of the world having to hand over lighters, shampoo bottles, nail clippers and the rest, and be patted down, but at least you don't get groped and the employees themselves are generally fully aware of how ridiculous these new regulations are and hence sympathetic. This stuff is unbelievable. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| God knows it's annoying enough in the rest of the world having to hand over lighters, shampoo bottles, nail clippers and the rest, and be patted down, but at least you don't get groped and the employees themselves are generally fully aware of how ridiculous these new regulations are and hence sympathetic. This stuff is unbelievable. |
Except for Korea, where you can't check a lighter, but you're allowed to bring it on the plane with you.  |
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