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BaldTeacher
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| I've got a few prospects at the moment, one of which is in Ulsan and promises me a 23 pyeong apartment, which is sweet. However, this job does not pay into pension. Would you accept a job such as this? Also, do you think that the lack of a pension is indicative of other dubious things? |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| BaldTeacher wrote: |
| Also, do you think that the lack of a pension is indicative of other dubious things? |
Of course it is. Why do you think that they're not paying into pension? They're cheap and willing to skirt the law (and work ethics). There's really no other reason, is there? So.... if they're willing to break the law in order to save a buck, you have to ask yourself what's to stop them from cheating you directly (e.g. not paying you, firing you without reasonable cause, pocketing your taxes instead of paying them, etc.)
I'd take a job without pension if there were other benefits that outweighed the pension. Think of the pension as an extra 100k Won per month. If the school isn't paying into it, then you're getting 100,000 less per month. If the salary is still ok for you, then no problem there. Where the problem DOES enter is with national health insurance. If you don't pay into pension, you can't sign up for national health insurance. Instead, the best that your school will do is sign you up for something private which will cover a LOT less (probably just accidents that happen at the workplace) - bare minimum stuff. Aside from the problems of not having medical coverage, do you think that this school would hold your job for you while you're in the hospital or at home for a while with a broken leg because you got hit by a car. Why bother? Cheaper to just fire you and get someone else. |
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tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| No, I wouldn't accept a job that doesn't pay pension. Pension, when paid, is a pretty sweet pay day when you get it back at the end of your contract. Since I like money I wouldn't accept a position that doesn't pay into the pension fund. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| BaldTeacher wrote: |
| Also, do you think that the lack of a pension is indicative of other dubious things? |
Of course it is. Why do you think that they're not paying into pension? They're cheap and willing to skirt the law (and work ethics). There's really no other reason, is there? So.... if they're willing to break the law in order to save a buck, you have to ask yourself what's to stop them from cheating you directly (e.g. not paying you, firing you without reasonable cause, pocketing your taxes instead of paying them, etc.)
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This^
A school that is willing to cheat you before you've signed on the dotted line is a school that is willing to cheat you afterwards as well.
And not only that...but every foreigner who signs on at such a school helps keep these bad schools afloat and perpetuates this practice. |
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kardisa
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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And not only that...but every foreigner who signs on at such a school helps keep these bad schools afloat and perpetuates this practice.
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Agreed. My new boss is trying to worm out of paying my pension (which is guaranteed in my contract) because "the other foreign teachers didn't want it." Well, that's nice for them, but it's my right under Korean Labor Law to have it, so I'm not letting the matter drop.
It would be much easier if foreigners boycotted schools who refuse to pay pension. Maybe then the owners would realize that they can't get away with this type of s***.
/end rant |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Get the pension. It is required of him to do it by law. I don't see how he can get away with not paying it. And it is free money for you. If he is making it a sticking point on hiring you or not, then pass.
Do you want to work for someone who is blatantly dodging labor laws? What other kind of crap is he going to pull? Maybe nothing. But are you willing to gamble the next year and your montly salary on it? Or risk having to do another visa run?
Judging from your other thread, you got options that sound just as good. |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Pension is mandatory, as is national health care. I would not accept a job that did not provide both. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| BaldTeacher wrote: |
| Would you accept a job such as this? |
Sure. Only because I know the pension office will get my pension for me regardless of the school (I've done it twice already, with little hassle for me)
| Quote: |
| Also, do you think that the lack of a pension is indicative of other dubious things? |
Possible, but if so, I let the labor board and courts deal with that, too. |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| BaldTeacher wrote: |
| Would you accept a job such as this? |
Sure. Only because I know the pension office will get my pension for me regardless of the school (I've done it twice already, with little hassle for me)
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| Also, do you think that the lack of a pension is indicative of other dubious things? |
Possible, but if so, I let the labor board and courts deal with that, too. |
Do you mind elaborating on that? I recently turned down a job that offered a higher salary than others but wouldn't pay pension unless they lowered the salary. Are you saying I could have taken the higher salary and then hustled them for pension at the end of the contract?
Didn't that involve the labor board as well? I don't see how squeezing pension out of a company that didn't offer it for a year was almost hassle-free. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| BaldTeacher wrote: |
| Do you mind elaborating on that? I recently turned down a job that offered a higher salary than others but wouldn't pay pension unless they lowered the salary. Are you saying I could have taken the higher salary and then hustled them for pension at the end of the contract? |
Yep. As long as your contract does not say you are an independent contractor, they are obligated by law to pay into pension. Go to the Pension Office*, file your complaint, they go after the company to pay up**, and you receive the money in your account within the month, and the company is fined for breaking pension laws.
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| Didn't that involve the labor board as well? |
No. Labor Board and Pension Board are completely separate entities. And the Pension Board has teeth behind their enforceable rulings (able to deal out multi-million won fines)--unlike the Labor Board.
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| I don't see how squeezing pension out of a company that didn't offer it for a year was almost hassle-free. |
You'd be surprised. Two afternoons--a total of maybe 2 hours sitting in the Pension offices--and that was it. They did all the legwork. Although, it was fun listening in on their initial phonecall to the last uni I worked for and hearing Pension dude yell and ream out my former boss over the phone. Sweet. In the end, he was also fined 5 million for breaking pension laws. Double sweet. Then three of my co-workers also filed for THEIR pension, and he was fined another 5 million EACH. Triple sweet.
*Jamsil station, exit 8, take your first left, go to the end of the street, the NPS building is in front of you, go up to the 4th(?) floor, left off the elevator, left at the T-hallway. They speak English.
**if they took your contributions, the Pension guys will just get your payments AND the company's payments and put both in your account. If the school did not deduct pension, then you must first pay your contributions to the school (do it in front of the pension caseworker), THEN the Pension guys will put both in your account. |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| BaldTeacher wrote: |
| Do you mind elaborating on that? I recently turned down a job that offered a higher salary than others but wouldn't pay pension unless they lowered the salary. Are you saying I could have taken the higher salary and then hustled them for pension at the end of the contract? |
Yep. As long as your contract does not say you are an independent contractor, they are obligated by law to pay into pension. Go to the Pension Office*, file your complaint, they go after the company to pay up**, and you receive the money in your account within the month, and the company is fined for breaking pension laws.
| Quote: |
| Didn't that involve the labor board as well? |
No. Labor Board and Pension Board are completely separate entities. And the Pension Board has teeth behind their enforceable rulings (able to deal out multi-million won fines)--unlike the Labor Board.
| Quote: |
| I don't see how squeezing pension out of a company that didn't offer it for a year was almost hassle-free. |
You'd be surprised. Two afternoons--a total of maybe 2 hours sitting in the Pension offices--and that was it. They did all the legwork. Although, it was fun listening in on their initial phonecall to the last uni I worked for and hearing Pension dude yell and ream out my former boss over the phone. Sweet. In the end, he was also fined 5 million for breaking pension laws. Double sweet. Then three of my co-workers also filed for THEIR pension, and he was fined another 5 million EACH. Triple sweet.
*Jamsil station, exit 8, take your first left, go to the end of the street, the NPS building is in front of you, go up to the 4th(?) floor, left off the elevator, left at the T-hallway. They speak English.
**if they took your contributions, the Pension guys will just get your payments AND the company's payments and put both in your account. If the school did not deduct pension, then you must first pay your contributions to the school (do it in front of the pension caseworker), THEN the Pension guys will put both in your account. |
Wow that is some great information to know! I honestly didn't know it was that easy and assumed you also dealt with the labor board. From the sounds of it the pension office is definitely on YOUR side and does their job. More foreigners should not this.... it would surely reduce the number of jobs I've been turning down that don't offer pension. Good to know though. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| marsavalanche wrote: |
| Wow that is some great information to know! I honestly didn't know it was that easy and assumed you also dealt with the labor board. |
No, pension is not a labor issue. The labor board will do nothing to help you in this regard.
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| From the sounds of it the pension office is definitely on YOUR side and does their job. |
The Pension Board doesn't screw around. They are on your side, no question.
That being said, don't go to your local pension office. They either don't know how to or can't/won't help you**. They are useless. Go to the National office in Jamsil. They won't screw around (same goes for the national Labor office, in Gangnam).
**my local office (in Jeollanam-do) said I "was not entitled to any money at all"'... too bad the HQ disagreed and put 1.2mill in my accounts a month later |
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Smudger
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
That being said, don't go to your local pension office. They either don't know how to or can't/won't help you**. They are useless. Go to the National office in Jamsil. They won't screw around (same goes for the national Labor office, in Gangnam).
**my local office (in Jeollanam-do) said I "was not entitled to any money at all"'... too bad the HQ disagreed and put 1.2mill in my accounts a month later |
Does this mean if your school hasn't been regularly contributing pension (i.e. mine) that the Pension Board will give you what you should be owed when you cash out and then chase the school down for it? Do they act like an insurance policy? |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| Smudger wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
That being said, don't go to your local pension office. They either don't know how to or can't/won't help you**. They are useless. Go to the National office in Jamsil. They won't screw around (same goes for the national Labor office, in Gangnam).
**my local office (in Jeollanam-do) said I "was not entitled to any money at all"'... too bad the HQ disagreed and put 1.2mill in my accounts a month later |
Does this mean if your school hasn't been regularly contributing pension (i.e. mine) that the Pension Board will give you what you should be owed when you cash out and then chase the school down for it? Do they act like an insurance policy? |
They will go after the school for the money first, then pay you when they get all of the requisite contributions (from both parties).
The do have ways of making the school pay, however (as stated above). |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Would you accept a job that doesn't pay pension? |
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| IlIlNine wrote: |
| Smudger wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
That being said, don't go to your local pension office. They either don't know how to or can't/won't help you**. They are useless. Go to the National office in Jamsil. They won't screw around (same goes for the national Labor office, in Gangnam).
**my local office (in Jeollanam-do) said I "was not entitled to any money at all"'... too bad the HQ disagreed and put 1.2mill in my accounts a month later |
Does this mean if your school hasn't been regularly contributing pension (i.e. mine) that the Pension Board will give you what you should be owed when you cash out and then chase the school down for it? Do they act like an insurance policy? |
They will go after the school for the money first, then pay you when they get all of the requisite contributions (from both parties).
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Actually, it's the other way round. You pay YOUR monies owed first (to the school), then THEY pay both your and theirs to the Pension Board. If you've already paid your contributions--and the school hasn't passed them on to the pension board--then they will go after the school alone. |
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