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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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 Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Why were schools funding this when math and science scores were declining? Ethnic and women's studies classes are just theology courses in the religion of multiculturalism. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| Why were schools funding this when math and science scores were declining? |
Why are math and science scores the be-all-end-all of education when only a very tiny percentage of our society can ever really expect to end up in a job which makes heavy use of either and they constitute an even smaller part of human life in general? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Competing group strategies.
Teaching the multi-culty, ethnic this and that is a group strategy to undermine America, and her sense of herself.
Prohibiting the teaching of the multi-culty, ethnic this and that is a group strategy to preserve America, and her sense of herself. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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@ Fox
Tough question. My response is going to be kind of long winded.
Liberal Arts are useless as it is impossible to use the knowledge gained in practical way (a bit of an exaggeration, but not much). In olden times CEOs were often history majors, as the study of history as the past was studied in in a way hat emphasized leadership qualities and values. These values were the foundation on which industry rested.
Then, in the 60's liberalism perverted this when it gained ascendency in academic circles. Now you study the humanities to learn why white people are terrible, why poor people must be given massive amounts of money, and why the bourgeois values that made capitalism so dynamic must now be replaced by "social justice".
Now if "social justice" was actually was a new advance in social organization that resulted in a more equal and actualized society, I would be all for it. But from my perspective, liberal society worked from about the mid thirties till the mid 60's and then went completely off the rails. Great society was the death knell, and you yourself have pointed towards one of the reasons why in your post about Jewish genetic and cultural superiority. Its all culture. Almost everything, from the military and economic success of a nation (or ethnicity) to how individual people act, its all about what sort of cultural indoctrination they have.
Well what kind of cultural indoctrination do people get in the humanities? Starting in high school I learned more about Harriet Tubman than I did about Ulysses S. Grant. I couldn't tell you how Andrew Jackson broke the 2nd national bank, but I learned that he oppressed the Indians. Judging by the constant news stories about the degraded state of public education I am not the only one who feels this.
University was worse. I had a female prof who took me aside and told me that while she wasn't allowed to bar me under university rules, she wanted to let me know that men were not welcome in her philosophy class. The anthropology dept at my university was geared more towards the cultural side than the physical side. The cultural side concerned itself mostly with dispelling racism. Gould, Lemark, Dawkins were all required reading. E. O Wilson on the other hand we never read. Instead we read critiques of his works. When I finally read his stuff on my own I couldn't believe what a load of BS my instructors had fed me.
It is a religion. It has very little to do with the facts of "what happened before" and instead seeks to modify the present according to its values. To the extent that history agrees with this, it is included. To the extent that its not, its excluded.
So I would say that studying the humanities is about as useful as attending sort of extreme religious college. You go there to learn about the cult of victimhood, and which group is where in the hierarchy of victims.
Whats worse is that we now seek to export this wierd cult overseas, to societies that up till now have been doing quite fine without them. Witness "Whale wars".
On the other hand, science, math, engineering are geared to making and doing things. Every time you use an iphone, eat a meal, wash your clothes, you reap the benefit of the practical knowledge these studies have given us. Of course we produce so few of these people that we have to import them from other countries, which hurts us, as we lose any ability n that area of expertise, and it hurts the countries they come from, as its so much more lucrative to go west and take care of people incapable of taking care of themselves.
It's true that in a healthy society you need both the humanities and the sciences. Unfortunately , we don't live in a healthy society. Instead a massive cancer has overtaken the humanities, and we decided to outsource the sciences.
Yeah, so that's why I support the move by Arizona. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| So to be clear, your case isn't that subjects outside of math and science are fundamentally useless, but rather you simply feel that the way they're often currently handled is completely wrongheaded. Correct? |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| poop. you managed to put into one sentence something that took me about a page. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
Liberal Arts are useless as it is impossible to use the knowledge gained in practical way (a bit of an exaggeration, but not much). In olden times CEOs were often history majors, as the study of history as the past was studied in in a way hat emphasized leadership qualities and values. These values were the foundation on which industry rested.
Then, in the 60's liberalism perverted this when it gained ascendency in academic circles. Now you study the humanities to learn why white people are terrible, why poor people must be given massive amounts of money, and why the bourgeois values that made capitalism so dynamic must now be replaced by "social justice". |
Very true. The humanities have been sliced up and specialized like the sciences. This has been terrible. And you get the 'cults' you describe. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| poop. you managed to put into one sentence something that took me about a page. |
No, that's a good one sentence summary on it, but not the insightful interesting read you wrote. You hit very valid points on how our education is failing us.
Instead of any teaching from dominant ethnic perspective, why not design courses and curriculum to be interdisciplinary where it involves all known relevant facts and their relationships. Things like how all the different peoples interacted and responded in the building of America up until modern times rather than only teaching what white man did and seen.
There are many interdisciplinary knowledge and school should never be taught from an ethnic dominant perspective as if we were a homogeneous people with no diversity and all else is inferior to our superior white existence. The non-dominant courses are banned, because they advocate Hispanic ethnic solidarity to challenge white people's immigration and economic policies who want to keep the USA segregated from Latin America apart from seeking cheap labor off the radar of the common people.
The ideals of America always were to challenge authority and fight for justice. Minorities seek to teach about social injustices because there are too many prejudices and discrimination based on ignorance and unwarranted fears. Now it's time for the people to fight for an economy that works for most; not for a particular ethnic group to be represented, but for all to be represented, gainfully employed, and treated equally at school and work. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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@ AsiaESLbound I agree that teaching from a dominant ethnic perspective would be a horror. However, I do think you need to boil lots of succesful cutltural traits into one identity and then label it "American".
Later on in uni you should dig into the meat and bones of history, from a neutral perspective. Until that social studies should foster an attachment to the polity and ability to think and argue rationally.
I completely disagree with your section on challenging "white policies" on immigration. All countries should set policy to benefit it's own citizens, whatever race they belong to. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Humanities is an academic idea not for the real world. It is fine in the ivy covered tower but few actually live in that tower. Math and science on the other hand do prepare one for the real world. there have been some studies done which show math majors were more successful overall than other majors. Yep E.O. Wilson was a racist sexist! He studied ants for petes sake not people but he is a villian even though the teachers who tell you of his awful crimes have never read his work. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Humanities is an academic idea not for the real world. |
Ah, yes. The core of the human experience is merely academic, while information and training that turns you into a better worker ant is what the real world should be about.
People need to stop confusing the "real world" with the "working world." They are very different things. Life is more than work, and nothing that merely prepares you for employment can be considered adequate preparation for life. This reduction of life's value to mere economics has done our society a fair amount of damage. Why promote it? |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| Humanities is an academic idea not for the real world. |
Ah, yes. The core of the human experience is merely academic, while information and training that turns you into a better worker ant is what the real world should be about.
People need to stop confusing the "real world" with the "working world." They are very different things. Life is more than work, and nothing that merely prepares you for employment can be considered adequate preparation for life. This reduction of life's value to mere economics has done our society a fair amount of damage. Why promote it? |
Well said. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:42 am Post subject: |
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At present I do not think the humanities prepare you for any part of life really. It's more about belief in a certain set of values. Might as well ask if theology prepares you for life. It doesn't. It's just a requirement for entrance into the clergy.
Lets bring this back to Arizona. Do you support the move to cut off funding for these classes? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| At present I do not think the humanities prepare you for any part of life really. It's more about belief in a certain set of values. |
That depends 100% on what humanities courses you take. For all certain people like to talk about humanities as "oppression studies," my philosophy education wasn't especially focused on such topics, especially given the kind of "oppression" such people are referring to. It's also worth noting that the ideas and values we were introduced to were quite varied, so much so that trying to reduce them into a single coherent set -- much less a "certain" set -- would be impossible.
Yeah, if you take Women's Studies, you're going to end up focusing on a certain set of values. If you take an overall broader approach, that stops being true.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| Might as well ask if theology prepares you for life. It doesn't. It's just a requirement for entrance into the clergy. |
At least some exposure to theology certainly does help you prepare for life. A huge amount of the inane irrationality in our society stems directly from Americans being totally ignorant about the specifics of their own and other religions. I'm an atheist myself, but I have certainly found value in my explorations of various schools of religious thought.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| Lets bring this back to Arizona. Do you support the move to cut off funding for these classes? |
No, because they're motivated purely and only by a group of politicians who are trying to entrench themselves in power by scaring up fear about Mexicans. I think some of the points you have made are decent, and if these changes were really made for those reasons I'd be more partial to them, but they were not, and as such, I disapprove.
Americans having a common identity is probably a good thing, but that identity can't be built on the kind of foundation these people are trying to build it on. |
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