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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there some fairer article we can read? Even something with propaganda sufficiently subtle so as not to insult one's intelligence. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006 Location: China
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I was an Anthropology major and that is the lair of the true blue leftest , anti-white brigade. yet I valued what I learned and not all of it was propaganda or mushy thought out socialist claptrap. My major professor in Grad school was a died in the wool commie who came to her senses after some time in Cuba and a lot of thinking. Oh she would teach the Whitey is all bad but then tear that argument apart or better let us tear the argument apart She was an African -american woman I value learning the scientific method the various critical stances. I enjoyed learning about the history of history and how we should think about how it is written. It did help me in the real world. But the stuff that is described that Arizona was teaching what a joke. First teach some history! the dates the people what happened when. This spinning of the narrative is ridiculous! |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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1)I do support the right of the US government to build a wall and for states
to pass laws restricting the ability of people to rent to illegal aliens, though I have nothing personally against illegal aliens. They are trying to help their families.
2)However, denying university students different perspectives on history and controversial ones encourages cultural hegemony of certain members of the majority who think in a certain way they deem appropriate.
It reminds me of fascism. I am not for political correctness to the extreme, but what's the harm in learning about Chicano culture?
3)Some Latinos did shoot themselves in the foot by appearing to foist their Spanish language and culture over the dominant culture, and we're seeing an understandable backlash. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| 1)I do support the right of the US government to build a wall ... |
Maybe the United States government has the right to build a wall, but that doesn't make it any less of a pointless waste of money.
Illegal immigration should be responded to with social and legal policy, not with demonstrably pointless expenditures to appease a certain demographic. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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The point is not to make it impossible but to up the difficulty. The berlin wall did not stop people from leaving East Germany, but it did make it more difficult. Esp if the wall steers people from the cities to the desert. I was sorry to read that they had placed bouys along the river. In the long run this is counterproductive, as people who thought it was too dangerous will now attempt to cross it, resulting in more drowning deaths.
Granted I would much rather rotate a division from the national guard into the area, as it would be a good training mechanism on dealing with refugees and and criminal syndicates, both of which look to be bugaboos in the coming century.
As far as legislating, I don't know how you legislate 10 million or so people who entered illegally. They broke the law. They drive down wages. Any rational solution is going to restrict immigration from Mexico, even if we do let in some on a guest pass.
I think the real problem here is that some see this as a way to ethnically gerrymander the country in their favor. It's the last gasp of the multi-kult and a boon financiers, the first group wanting to remodel the country into a bolivarian dictatorship and the latter group aiming for a banana republic. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| The point is not to make it impossible but to up the difficulty. |
Did you watch the video? That didn't look difficult to me, and creating any sort of obstacle that would be meaningfully difficult to get past would be very costly.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| As far as legislating, I don't know how you legislate 10 million or so people who entered illegally. |
You don't. Legislation to deal with illegal immigration must target businesses to be effective. Businesses are the organizations that have a stake in society, and thus something to lose. Businesses are also the ones betraying their society by illegally hiring cheaper illegal aliens at the expense of native born citizens.
There are all ready laws on the books towards this end, but they're both barely enforced, and too weak even when they are enforced. When the same illegal immigrant is found working at the same restaurant four times in a row and deported each time, while the business remains in operation and suffers so little financial impact from the government response that it makes financial sense for them to keep hiring that guy, it's clear we don't have a serious policy on the matter.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| They broke the law. They drive down wages. |
Illegal immigrants and the businesses that hire them both have broke the law, and both have driven down wages through their violation. Illegal immigrants number in the millions and have virtually nothing to lose. Businesses number in the thousands, are generally not especially mobile, and have much to lose due to the stake they hold in our society. I think it's clear which side of the problem is better addressed.
Spending money arresting, temporarily incarcerating, and deporting illegals isn't very effective. Spending money building gigantic walls that take 15 seconds to get over isn't very effective. If this stuff worked then I'd be far more willing to take it seriously, but it just doesn't.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
| Any rational solution is going to restrict immigration from Mexico, even if we do let in some on a guest pass. |
We are in agreement that legal immigration from Mexico should be restricted. We simply disagree on the wisest means to achieve that end. Instead of building giant walls and lining our border with military bases and deploying at great expense every time a motion sensor goes off at great (and endless) expense to our nation, I'd rather simply target businesses who violate the law, inflict meaningful and reliable consequences that force compliance, and then promote a fairly broad guest worker program that maximizes the incentive of illegal immigrants to register and pay taxes, funnels them into the fields where they really are needed, and allows for the possibility to work towards citizenship. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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good response. But I would differ on two points. My first point is that you need a stick and carrot approach on deterring illegals. The carrots are guest worker permits and citizenship. The stick is a difficult border crossing. However you do it, a difficult border crossing is necessary, as the economic disparity and lack of good governance on the mexican side will make for a massive incentive to get across the border. Chain link fences don't do much, but when patrolled by border gaurds backed by national gaurds, with a difficult desert passage to boot, people will opt for the legal safe way.
As far as biz goes, I think that is less of a problem then the political advocacy of the multi-cults. About 10 years ago the cleaners association whooped butt when the prospect of immi checks came using the threat of a latino voters movement. A movement spawned by illegal immigration. With biz accused of harassment and racism when trying to check for status, its no wonder they take the easy route. Break the lobbying groups of these illegals (and their multi-cult allies) and you might makes some progress towards a rational solution.l |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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What I know is that there is a backlash against the idea that some Hispanics want to push Spanish is another language in the United States, and there is a higher crime rate, allegedly, from those coming from across the border than those who were born in the United States from the majority group.
Thus, they feel threatened. I am not sure the answer is to ban ethnic studies. There isn't one ethnic group, but I don't like people trying to come here and impose Spanish, and the gang problem is a problem in the United States. I definitely honor the hard work many Mexicans put into this country and the mostly honest ones who have given so much to America. I don't blame them from coming here. Many of us would do the same if we had to do that. |
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CHUD
Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Location: KR
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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I grew up in a lower middle class area of Los Angeles in the 80s, went to what was then called Birmingham HS. If I went there today, I'd probably get shot since I'm a Gabacho. Southern California is already a De Facto northern Mexican state. If you are rich, you are O.K., if you are poor, you are O.K. because of the variety of welfare programs-AFDC, wic, food stamps... Businesses and people in the middle are fleeing
http://www.school-ratings.com/ratingsDetails.php?cds=19647331931047 |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
No, because they're motivated purely and only by a group of politicians who are trying to entrench themselves in power by scaring up fear about Mexicans. |
Speaking of this, here's an article:
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For all of that and more, Mr. Acosta�s class and others in the Tucson Unified School District�s Mexican-American program have been declared illegal by the State of Arizona � even while similar programs for black, Asian and American Indian students have been left untouched.
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On Monday, his final day as the state�s top education official, Mr. Horne declared that Tucson�s Mexican-American program violated all four provisions. The law gives the district 60 days to comply, although Mr. Horne offered only one remedy: the dissolution of the program.
He said the district�s other ethnic-studies programs, unlike the Mexican-American program, had not received complaints and could continue. |
This is about one thing and one thing alone: harassing Mexicans and breeding resentment against them in the general population. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah. That is pretty lame. |
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