|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: ......... |
|
|
ghj
Last edited by PeterDragon on Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
offtheoche
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is standard Asian women double standard behavior. Personally, I'd give her a simple choice,
You agree to disagree and both of you don't say anything personal or negative about each other's countries whilst in the same place at the same time. If she doesn't accept this, then I'd 100% divorce her. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yep, you beat me to it in your last sentence: she's in denial. I feel bad for you OP, my girlfriend at least acknowledges with me that Korean (mostly men) people are incredibly xenophobic...maybe use the word "xenophobic" from now on instead of racist. If she still gets upset, then either play hard ball with her and continue to say it, or let it go and don't talk about it anymore (I'd sooner go with the latter because I hate arguing; I'm much too lazy to put forth the physical effort to carry out an hour-long ego match.)
If she ever comes to America with me, I'll allow her to say anything she wants about my country (and I'll probably agree with her), because I'm amazed on how much she allows me to vent about her country. I put Korea down constantly, and she never gets mad. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
offtheoche
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Radius wrote: |
If she ever comes to America with me, I'll allow her to say anything she wants about my country (and I'll probably agree with her), because I'm amazed on how much she allows me to vent about her country. I put Korea down constantly, and she never gets mad. |
Sounds like you've got a good one.....and my missus is exactly the same. I also wouldn't mind her venting about some of the silly things in my country, I may even join her! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
[yughjk
Last edited by PeterDragon on Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
interestedinhanguk

Joined: 23 Aug 2010
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Has your wife ever really experienced much racism? She may very well not have (at least to a significant degree) depending on where you live. Can you bring up the point that maybe she can't judge what it's like to be discriminate against. Let's say for instance you've lived in the US for just a short time in a major city with a large Asian/Korean population. She may have no gauge. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lastrova
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:37 am Post subject: Re: My (Korean) wife and racism in Korea |
|
|
PeterDragon wrote: |
that while I feel Korea is more stable and much better-run than America, the vast majority of Koreans have a deep seated, immovable racism toward non-Koreans that makes their culture annoying and unpleasant to deal with. While this a subjective opinion, it is backed by plenty of evidence, |
It sounds like you're letting one perspective overwhelm your experience of and understanding of Koreans. Seriously, did you deal with this blunt and irrational level of racism in Korea on a daily basis? The vast majority? This kind of nationalistic certainty is really annoying, and some philosophical and historical detachment is essential, but I suspect you are letting an itch you can't scratch bother you too much. Yes, yes, venting, but as an expression of your emotional state, it seems you're letting an implacable part of Korean culture take control of you. Homogeneity and a lack of worldliness. Rise above. And find a more even keeled perspective. Koreans complain. They have excuses for everything. Everything.
Last edited by Lastrova on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
ghjhkl
Last edited by PeterDragon on Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
hondaicivic
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: Daegu, South Korea
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: Re: My (Korean) wife and racism in Korea |
|
|
PeterDragon wrote: |
I'm a happy person when I'm not posting here, I swear. But since I come here to vent, here's my latest annoyance with Korean culture:
My wife and son will be visiting Korea in April and May. Because I have grad school here in the states, I'll only be able to join them for the last week of their visit. (My wife is expecting to start school and a job here this summer, so this is her last chance for a really long trip to her home country for the next few years.)
People here in America often ask me how I liked Korea. I tell them--- even if my wife is present--- that while I feel Korea is more stable and much better-run than America, the vast majority of Koreans have a deep seated, immovable racism toward non-Koreans that makes their culture annoying and unpleasant to deal with. While this a subjective opinion, it is backed by plenty of evidence, from my own anecdotes, to the way foreigners are portrayed in the SK media, to the similar sentiments many many Americans who've stayed in Korea have.
So today, we were out with friends and I made one of my usual comments about how Koreans, while often racist on a personal level, still make a lot of pragmatic decisions about immigration policy. (My exact words were "Most Koreans are incredibly racist, but they vote their interests instead of their emotions, unlike Americans.")
My wife sulked the rest of the evening and threw a sh--fit when we got home. She now says she doesn't want me join her in Korea for any of her trip and wants me to "stay in a hotel in another province, if you think Koreans are racist."
My wife complains about America all the time. She says Americans are greedy, lazy, selfish, "cunning" and "crazy." I agree with her most of the time, and occasionally agree to disagree. I actually complain about America much more than I complain about Korea, and have told her I ultimately see Korea as the less troubled and more livable country of the two.
At the root of it, I think my wife simply doesn't believe that Korea is a race driven society, or that the average Korean harbors any prejudice. She is convinced, against all evidence, that I am either imagining every last incident of bigotry I've been on the receiving end of, or that I have almost magically bad luck, and have somehow only worked with, commuted alongside, and lived near the tiny sliver of the Korean population that's xenophobic.
At the root of it, I feel like, after nearly four years of being treated like crap by my Korean co-workers, neighbors, fellow commuters, and even some of my wife's extended family, I should be allowed to speak my mind about how that felt. My wife certainly feels free to complain about my culture's shortcomings.
I'm very annoyed by my wife's state of denial and double standard about cultural criticism right now. |
::sigh::..............another one . I give you guys 3-5 years before the divorce procedure start. Sorry for being pessimistic. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
hondaicivic
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: Daegu, South Korea
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
PeterDragon wrote: |
interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Has your wife ever really experienced much racism? She may very well not have (at least to a significant degree) depending on where you live. Can you bring up the point that maybe she can't judge what it's like to be discriminate against. Let's say for instance you've lived in the US for just a short time in a major city with a large Asian/Korean population. She may have no gauge. |
She hasn't experienced much racism. Asians get less crap from whitey than other races in the U.S. as a whole, and most of her abroad experiences have been in large international cities. Right now we're in a small hick town with a large SE Asian refugee population (a common type of city int he American Midwest). There's a lot of ignorance and resentment of the refugees in certain circles around her, but my wife hasn't gotten any slurs or nasty comments yet, although she has been mistaken for a refugee a time or two.
Maybe I should discuss it with her from that angle. And I like the OP's idea that I refer to "xenophobia" instead of racism. It's less incendiary and in many ways more accurate. The uglier side of Korean culture encourages a broad discomfort with all outsiders, rather than focused discrimination or hostility. |
Is that suppose to be a f******* joke? ...........since kindergarten till now, I had people ask me "where I'm really from?", been called ching chong ching chong, chink, "you have slanted eyes". "Do you know martial arts or kung fu" and all the countless BS the media tried to portray of asians on TV/hollywood. You have no idea what it feels like to be in my shoe or any other asian-americans. Asian guys dating white girls back in the states get so much shit from people around them and you got the nerve to complain?....
You sound pissed off because for the first time, white priviledge doesn't work for you anymore......
you might want to take a look at this article before you open your mouth..
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/27/MN199998.DTL
Last edited by hondaicivic on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: Re: My (Korean) wife and racism in Korea |
|
|
Lastrova wrote: |
It sounds like you're letting one perspective overwhelm your experience of and understanding of Korea. Seriously, did you deal with this blunt and irrational level of racism in Korea on a daily basis? The vast majority? |
Lastrova--- You may be right. Honestly, my lasting impression of Korea is twofold and contradictory--- it's a well-run country that is ever improving, and it's full of bigots of many stripes. As for the "vast majority", I had a lot of in depth discussions with my Korean co-workers, neighbors, etc... about many things, and initiated discussions with random Koreans on the bus, train, and in bars, both to practice my Korean and learn as much about the culture as I could. And yes, pretty much every Korean I got to know very well at all harbored some racial or ethnic prejudice. If not against me, then against Filippinos, or Blacks, or in many cases, most Westerners other than me.
I had a number of co-workers tell me I was the only good foreign worker they'd ever come across, and had a Korean girlfriend before my wife, who told me with a straight face that all foreigners except me were "crazy and mean". Had many other Koreans tell me that they liked me even though I wasn't Korean. My first principal bragged to me that he had managed to hire me "instead of a black." My second principal turned off the heat to the English wing of the school because "foreigners don't work hard enough to earn heat." My neighbors threw loud parties, playing Korean music and leaving Korean food strewn in the hallways and successfully blamed it on me. I could go on.
The fact that the racism is so hard for me to swallow is a matter of perspective. Many Westerners would just be proud/grateful that they got so involved in Korean society and got to know such a cross section of locals. I, on the other hand, was annoyed every time I heard Koreans slur other races, resented being labeled as "one of the good ones", and saw the Koreans who actively hated me and the Koreans who learned to selectively tolerate me as being part of the same broader problem. The way Korean's treat outsiders, and even insiders who are different fundamentally contradicts my most important personal values and has left a lasting bad taste in my mouth. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
hondaicivic wrote: |
Is that suppose to be a f******* joke? ...........since kindergarten till now, I had people ask me "where I'm really from?", been called ching chong ching chong, chink, "you have slanted eyes". "Do you know martial arts or kung fu" and all the countless BS the media tried to portray of asians on TV/hollywood. You have no idea what it feels like to be in my shoe or any other asian-americans. Asian guys dating white girls back in the states get so much shit from people around them and you got the nerve to complain?....
You sound pissed off because for the first time, white priviledge doesn't work for you anymore...... |
Hondaicivic--- there's definitely some truth to that last comment. It's harder for a sheltered white guy like me to adjust to prejudice. I think immersing ones self in a place like Korea is something every white Westerner should have to do.
I'm realizing now how insensitive that comment about Asians getting less crap must sound. Statistically it's true--- Asians are discriminated less in hirings, university admittance, and housing. However, I am very well aware that many white people in America still treat Asians terribly and very disrespectfully. I witnessed this second hand growing up in central Wisconsin. The Hmong refugee students in my elementary school were treated badly as you've described by a lot of their classmates. Worse, the teachers and other adults in the school often made racist or denigrating comments to them. I really didn't understand what my Asian classmates were going through enough to even stand up for them, which is inexcusable.
In other words, good points.
(Edited to add: Very interesting article by the way. I had no idea negative perceptions of Asians were so severe. My own country has a long way to go, but is sadly much less amenable to progress than Korea is these days.) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
You won't ever begin to treally understand Korean attitides toward foreigners until you take a serious (not mainstream media) look at what actually caused the war and what really went down during the conflict.
A lot of Koreans themselves don't begin to understand until they get older and outgrow the pap they were fed in school, where MacArthur is touted as their liberator and capitalism/Christianity as the only valid belief system.
Once they get to a certain age, their grandparents tell them what they and everyone had to endure. Of course, the whole thing is complicated by those who collaborated with the military gov't to advance their own interests. Hence, Koreans are always fighting with each other, especially when it comes to politics, in short, the war's actually still on in a number of ways, and foreigners inevitably get a share of the blame, whether they actually deserve any of it or not on an individual level.
But if you remain in the dark about the actual causes and consequences of the war, you are headed for difficulties, as all of your actions and outlook will be based on erroneous assumptions, and you will never truly be able to understand modern Korean society, and therefore won't be able to come to some basic understanding of many of its people.
Of course, the easy solution is to blow it off, which a lot of foreigners end up doing; I mean, why bother, right? All the adjimmas and ajossis are pathetic. Just let me make my money, mix with the few enlightened natives, do a few girls, and then right back home.
But you've married a Korean, and you've got a child who's half, so there are a few more things in the mix.
I think you'll figure it out, you seem to be a little more open-minded and forward thinking than most. So long as you don't put too much stock into the dailies and news channels/sites. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: Re: My (Korean) wife and racism in Korea |
|
|
hondaicivic wrote: |
::sigh::..............another one . I give you guys 3-5 years before the divorce procedure start. Sorry for being pessimistic. |
Hope you're wrong. But yes, cultural differences are a big problem in our marriage that neither of us properly anticipated or prepared for. We're doing our best to mitigate it. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
don't put too much stock in the dailies regarding the Korean war and current Korean political situation. That article that Hondacivic put up has some food for thought. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|