| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: USA - Mexico - China - North Korea |
 |
|
| Why do Americans think it is ok to stop Mexicans from entering the USA while at the same time think China should allow North Koreans into China? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What makes you think this is the average American's position? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Because I am one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StudentInKorea
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: USA - Mexico - China - North Korea |
|
|
| Zackback wrote: |
| Why do Americans think it is ok to stop Mexicans from entering the USA while at the same time think China should allow North Koreans into China? |
Let me try to guess...
Because refugees trying to escape North Korea are running from hunger and prosecution, they are likely to be sent to prison or die on their return to North Korea. Their goal is usually to come to South Korea and it is therefore a very little burden on China. These are mostly if not all people who would qualify as refugees under the human right convention.
Mexicans coming to America are mostly economical refugees. They want to make a better life by working in Korea, but have no legal right for entering America and usually don't face starvation or death in their home country.
I am not from America and I don't have any problems with Mexican immigrants, but I think there is a quite clear difference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: USA - Mexico - China - North Korea |
|
|
| Zackback wrote: |
| Why do Americans think it is ok to stop Mexicans from entering the USA while at the same time think China should allow North Koreans into China? |
While Mexico may not be the best place in the world, its citizens are guaranteed freedom of speech and other civil liberties. And while it is true that people there are often borderline poor, they are not struggling to survive and as a general rule are not suffering from malnutrition for that matter.
The same cannot be said for North Korea. People there do not have basic civil liberties, and outside of Pyeongyang, many North Koreans are suffering from malnutrition and many have died from starvation. In fact, quite possibly 12% of North Korea's population died during the 1990's.
The fact is that Mexico and North Korea are quite incomparable. In fact, I am sure that any North Korean would consider Mexico to be a kind of paradise. So, given the North Koreans in question are trying to escape a hell on Earth, illegally crossing a border really starts to seem like a trivial matter to get upset over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: USA - Mexico - China - North Korea |
|
|
| StudentInKorea wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
| Why do Americans think it is ok to stop Mexicans from entering the USA while at the same time think China should allow North Koreans into China? |
Let me try to guess...
Because refugees trying to escape North Korea are running from hunger and prosecution, they are likely to be sent to prison or die on their return to North Korea. Their goal is usually to come to South Korea and it is therefore a very little burden on China. These are mostly if not all people who would qualify as refugees under the human right convention.
Mexicans coming to America are mostly economical refugees. They want to make a better life by working in Korea, but have no legal right for entering America and usually don't face starvation or death in their home country.
I am not from America and I don't have any problems with Mexican immigrants, but I think there is a quite clear difference. |
So, Mexicans illegally cross America's borders in order to get jobs as English teachers in South Korea?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zackback wrote: |
| Because I am one. |
Sorry about the thread - better luck next time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zackback wrote: |
| Because I am one. |
lol, so you don't have a good reason for your opinion, but want others to supply you with a few?
Anyway... every country has the right to maintain its own borders with regard to immigration. However, it's a nice courtesy to provide political asylum to people who are subjugated in their own country, especially if they may be punished upon their return.
On one hand you have a North Korean seeking political asylum and freedom from oppression, who hates the North Korean government. On the other, you have Mexican citizens who love their home country but still immigrate to the U.S. illegally for economic benefits.
A government has the right to keep either out, but I personally would welcome the law abiding North Korean into my neighborhood. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:23 am Post subject: Re: USA - Mexico - China - North Korea |
|
|
| StudentInKorea wrote: |
| Because refugees trying to escape North Korea are running from hunger and prosecution, they are likely to be sent to prison or die on their return to North Korea. |
Don't you mean persecution? I don't think North Korea has a very honest court system to prosecute people of crimes.
Anyways, I'd say it's more hunger than persecution. The Chinese themselves estimate 1-2 million North Koreans illegally roaming around China. And a mere 30,000 in 50 years have actually defected. 99% of whom have defected after 1990. I believe before 1990 there were less than 100 defectors, and they did get generous payout packages that lasted a lifetime. These days the money defectors get might get them by for a year.
I'd say most North Koreans go into China to make money and then go back into North Korea to take care of their families. But of course you'll never hear about that in the western media. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Clearly we should be sending the North Koreans to Mexico. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm pretty sure most Americans have no opinion regarding North Koreans going into China, or even really think about it at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
According to Freedom House
Mexico
Political Rights Score: 2
Civil Liberties Score: 3
Status: Free
North Korea
Political Rights Score: 7
Civil Liberties Score: 7
Status: Not Free
Concerning North Korea
| Quote: |
The government operates a semihereditary system of social discrimination whereby all citizens are classified into 53 subgroups under overall security ratings��core,� �wavering,� and �hostile��based on their family�s perceived loyalty to the regime. This rating determines virtually every facet of a person�s life, including employment and educational opportunities, place of residence, access to medical facilities, and even access to stores.
There is no freedom of movement, and forced internal resettlement is routine. Access to Pyongyang, where the availability of food, housing, and health care is somewhat better than in the rest of the country, is tightly restricted. Emigration is illegal, but many North Koreans, especially women, have escaped to China or engaged in cross-border trade. Ignoring international objections, the Chinese government continues to return refugees and defectors to North Korea, where they are subject to torture, harsh imprisonment, or execution. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| caniff wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
| Because I am one. |
Sorry about the thread - better luck next time. |
Seriously. Maybe pause a minute or two before asking such a question. Probably (and hopefully) you can figure out the answer on your own next time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mexico - By world standards a wealthy country
- Democratically elected government (it is very democratic)
- By world standards individual civil rights
Korea - Starving civilians (over one million dead by conservative est.)
- one tenth of the population in Gulags waiting to die in 6 months
- no individual rights what so ever
The question is superficial. If someone from Central America arrives in the USA and is in imminent danger in thier own country the USA does not kick them out in practice (although there are failures and hypocrisy in the system due to the crap that rises to the top in the justice system and immigration). Anybody that flees to China from Korea is in immenent danger and there is no excuse for China's policy.
Also in the United States there is a separation between Immigration, and the police and the FBI and other agencies. The police or FBI cannot arrest illegal immigrants or track down illegal immigrants, only immigration officials. Also information from Social Agencies (hospitals for instance) providing assitance to individuals cannot and do not (except illegally) give information about suspected illegal immigrants to the police or immigration. If they do the individuals involved land themselves in serious trouble.
Last edited by young_clinton on Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Every time I travel from Las Cruces in New Mexico northwards, immigration comes on the bus and asks for identification. I am going to start telling them I don't have to show them anything (which I don't). I am sick and tired of the police state attitude that is cropping up in the USA over illegal immigration. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
