Korean Job Discussion Forums

[HanlSky]

[ippy]

I think i mentioned it in my first post on this thread over a year ago. If not, i still feel the exact same

teaching middle school in korea is like teaching shogakko in japan in terms of student energy. Nothing more fatiguing in life than a japanese middle school class. Nice kids and all, but it sucks the life out of you trying to make energy in a classroom there. Here its more about trying to focus or keep the lid on their energy, and i just like that way more.

[Mosley]

Young Frank: I know you're a long timer who's often posted solid, hard-hitting advice about the EFL racket in E. Asia, esp. Korea. Full marks & kudos.

But you're way off the mark about HK NET. There's nothing wrong with a rigorous & demanding application/interview process as long as it's fair, respectful, organized and professional. Those criteria don't apply to NET when 1. The NET mandarins refuse to deal with you directly and insist you go through a designated recruiter. 2. Said recruiter tells you scanned docs are fine; bring originals when you go to the interview. 3. Then, recruiter tells you you must mail hard copies of all your docs to HK. Oh, when do the NET power trippers want them? Yesterday! 4. You get an interview. Yay! You have 5 days notice to arrange travel arrangements(JET gives you a FULL month's notice and the venue, date & time are NOT subject to last minute changes). In my case, the interview site was 2 hours by air from my residence. I chewed glass, but managed to book a flight. Only HOURS after my booking, I get an email from my recruiter saying "Nope! Your interview is now TWO DAYS EARLIER than originally scheduled!" Wonderful lot, wot? 5. Interview: You are treated like a white gwailo turd by HK officials. Recruiter tries to kiss your keester saying how "you're in like Flint." 6. After 3 weeks you get email form letter(from recruiter)telling you that NET has "changed course" and no contract is to be offered.

This is reasonable & professional?! If JET treated an applicant like this SOMEBODY would be committing seppuku...and it wouldn't be a non-Japanese.

Young Frank: simple & reasonable Q: Have you ever been part of the HK NET application/interview process?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch: JET Orientation...3 days...fully paid...stay at 4 star hotel in Shinjuku...last night has banquet where booze is supplied free for 90 mins.

EPIK Orientation...10-odd days...unpaid...stay at non A/C grungy dorm in the middle of nowhere...constant admonishment regarding drinking, in the dorms or elsewhere....

JET's application process is often described as rigorous and demanding...rightfully so. But there's no bizarre crapola about apostilles and notary publics and where have you lived in the last 10 years and list every job you've had and what elementary school did you attend and how many alcoholic drinks do you have every week and...well, get the picture...alcoholic, drug-addicted pusher, pedophile, teaching incompetent?

You're probably a homosexual HIV-infected degenerate too.
EPIK Q:
''How many drinks do you consume in a week?''! This in a country where half the adult male population is pissed as a rat on a given night & the other half picks up the slack the next night.

[Scott in Incheon]

I went through the NET process and found none of the above to be true.

I didn't go through a recruiter, and looking at the most recent ad I saw, you don't have to.

The process is long and you have a lot of waiting but at the end you have one of the best ESL jobs in the world. I worked in HK for six years before coming to Korea with my family.

http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/11848112?uc=E0

Great pay...raises every year...flights home after every 2 year contract...good holidays...and a great city to live in.

[Mosley]

Didn't you used to be "Scott in HK"? I ask because I remember that poster once agreeing that NETs were treated badly in some cases(not necessarily in pay & benefits)and the application process was *beep*. Then again, you once claimed you made $108,000/yr. in HK and left it all to come to .... Korea!?

I've met several EFLers, personally, who went through the rigmarole directly though NET and corroborated my testimony. If anything, they were even more bitter in their denunciations.

[Scott in Incheon]

Yes...I was Scott in HK...I didn't claim to make 108K a year...I did make it...though with the exchange it...my salary did go down in the last year or so it terms of Canadian dollars

I was making 45K HK a month and the exchange rate at one time was around 5-1 so about 9K Can a month and then went down to 6-1 or about 8K a month. The exchange rate is different now so of course it would be less...but if I had stayed I would be making over 50K a month or more.

I came to Korea because international school fees would have eaten away all of my savings.

The process is long and involved but no where near as bad as you make it out to be. And you were simply wrong about the recruiter thing.

I know dozens of people who use to be on the NET program and are still on it. And none of them had the experience you had going through the hiring process.

Sure there are some complaints...teachers always complain...but it is still a great program and well worth the process you go through.

[shostahoosier]

[swashbuckler]

Mosely is just being pouty because his former bed buddies Bruce Nix and Stone Cold Austin aren't around to tussle with anymore and he is now employed as a full-time security guard in Moose Jaw, Ontario

Swashbuckler (formally "adventureman")

[Weigookin74]

[southernman]

One of my friends did two stints for JET.

Once in the early 90's once again from 04-08. He said the glory days are well are truly over. Back in the day (the 90's) his wife and him were sending 12K NZ home a month and living like kings. Heaps of privates.

These days he said there's to many westerners and not enough privates.

He enjoyed his time the first time around not so much the second time. I'm happy enough being a NET here. Japan's way to expensive and saving a buck is far easier here

[Caffeinated]

Some random notes on this thread from an ex-JET:

JET application - I've heard of applications being rejected because they didn't closely follow the instructions which are pretty thorough. This is understandable enough as a check on your English comprehension as well as your ability to follow instructions.

JET interview - yes, some questions are designed to rattle you to see how quickly you are rattled and how you think on your feet. I had two older men pretending to be elementary school students turn quiet, look puzzled and talk to each other in Japanese during my teaching demo. This is a fair enough tactic to spring on an interviewee hoping to live in a different culture halfway around the world.

One thing that's repeated often on JET is ESID. Yes, there were times when I didn't have to do much in class except be the tape recorder but I've also been the main teacher entrusted with the elementary curriculum for the academic year, including the special education classes.

The big difference for me between JET and EPIK/SMOE: organization, then support. JET involves a series of orientations and various conferences during the year on top of daily school meetings. There is also an established network of former JETs and current JETs for your pre-, current and post-JET experience. EPIK/SMOE - the less said, the better. My jaws have been dropping since Day One.

I prefer the elementary English curriculum in Korea over the (sometimes non-existent) one in Japan. It's more student-friendly and is a base you can build on.

I find Korean elementary students are more eager to volunteer, while Japanese ones are more organized and good-natured.

Here was another recent tread on this subject:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=193189&highlight=

[drama_addict]

My two cents from someone who's participated in both JET and EPIK/SMOE.

I concur with the general consensus of former JETs on here that the JET Programme puts EPIK and SMOE to shame when it comes to overall organization and support of its employees. Orientation was actually well organized and informative, and we actually were given a whole week to get settled once we were shown our apartments! It's nothing like Sorea at all... (All you former JETs remember all the free stuff we'd be given? Wall calendars, schedulers, stationery... You'd never see Koreans doing that!) Yes! JET's a million times better than EPIK and SMOE. One year in Korea would make anyone see that.

Even though JET is vastly superior to EPIK and SMOE, as others have already pointed out, it's unfortunately experiencing something of a decline. Positions are certainly still available in rural areas, but the choice urban and suburban locations have pretty much all been axed. When I was with JET in 2004-2007, I was one of the lucky 230 JETs to get placed in Saitama Prefecture. My town was on the Shohan Shinjuku line, and I could role into Shibuya Stn in less than 50 mins! By the time I left in '07, the number of JETs to be placed in Saitama had dropped to less than 60.

Prefectural and municipal governments are seeing JET as too costly, and are turning to privates who contract foreign employees out to public schools, usually making 100K Yen less than JETs for a salary. It's a shame, but the ESL field in East Asia is so flooded that employers can afford to be choosy because everyone wants to be here....

The Middle East is looking more and more appealing... At least they have the knowledge there NOT to hire young twenty-somethings fresh out of Uni with NO teaching experience.

[Weigookin74]

[swashbuckler]

[Mosley]

I freely admit to having little background in psychology, so I'll leave it to those who do have such a background to try to account for the phenom of some people unable to stand the thought of someone actually being POSITIVE about something non-Korean. For my part, I'll stick to the "sour grapes" theory insofar as anytime I've sang praises of JET and someone has gotten their dander up, I've noted that that 'someone' always has 3 characteristics: 1. He/she is not on JET 2. He/she never has been on JET. 3. He/she never will be on JET. And so here, on this thread.

As for shosta, if you'd actually read my posts instead of relying on your knee-jerk apologist radar, you would've noticed that I was putting down EPIK, not Korea per se. But I'll tell ya what: since YOU said there are people who tell you that you "should be hating Korea", I'll get you to explain to us this phenom:

For the past decade or so, many young Westerners have been offered non-JET ALT contracts by so-called dispatch cos.(scum of the earth), and then are farmed out to public schools. Much more often than not, the contract conditions are atrocious, e.g. no airfare, no subsidized rent, salaries as low as Y200K/mo., etc. Sadly, too many saps have been eager to take these jobs. It's allowing Japanese employers to keep non-JET EFLers in servitude. Indeed, it might even lead to JET's eventual demise. When you point out to the saps that they are, well, saps, they don't take it well-even when they finally& inevitably agree that the contract terms are crap. Then comes their classic fallback line: "Well, at least I get to experience Japan." Well sure you do, sweetpea...if 'experiencing Japan' largely involves sitting on worn tatami night after night eating Cup Noodle.

As pathetic as that is, there IS an element of sincerity in that claim. Now, let's imagine this scenario: A Korean employer offers a Westerner a teaching job where no airfare is provided, rent must be paid and the salary is twelve hundred bucks a month. Any takers? "Oh, sure...pick me! At least I get to experience Korea!"

That's right, sunshine. Death row inmates wouldn't take that deal. And we'll wait w/bated breath for you, shosta, to get back to us and account for that fact.

Then there's Errol Flynn...er, swashbuckler. This polymath in geography("Moose Jaw, Ontario") and his native tongue(" 'formally adventureman' ") admittedly raised my eyebrows a bit. "Adventureman? Should that mean something to me?" It was as if a buddy asked me "Hey...remember that time 7 yrs. ago, we were in a park in Busan & a mosquito bit you?" To which I would reply "Of course I don't remember that, ya friggin' goof! I don't take note of insignificant creatures." And since adventureman(what a superhero name, eh? I bet you've got every episode of BIG BANG THEORY)had long, long ago been put into my 'insignificant creature' category, I couldn't recall this scholar amongst Dave's posters. But you provided a smoking gun clue/memory jogger-one which you will surely regret.

I DID think to myself, "What kind of sorry sack of **** would denigrate a deceased member of Dave's and one of its best-ever posters?" And then it came back to me. Ahhhhhhh...adventureman. Ain't ya proud, mate?

Yes, I was a friend, proudly, of Bruce Nix. And swash, he had more integrity, decency, honesty and teaching ability in his left big toe than you do in that sorry sack of skin of yours that supposedly houses a human being. As for the long-banned Austin, he was in YOUR camp, mate; relentlessly apologizing for all things Korean with a sociopathic panache that you never demonstrated despite your efforts.

You see, folks, swashman was accepted into EPIK and, while still stateside, joined Dave's and launched attacks against posters who dared(gasp!)to criticize EPIK. Get the picture? He'd never taught EFL & had never even set foot in E. Asia but this paragon of teaching excellence and international experience wasn't having any of this nonsense of experienced EFLers in Korea daring to say anything negative about their overlords. Nosireee, Bob.

Crikey! Even uber-apologists like Homer & schwa actually spent time in Korea before relentlessly defending it at all costs.

And, adventurebuckler, you'd just l-u-u-u-u-u-v to believe I was a security guard in "Moose Jaw, Ontario", wouldn't ya?

Here's YOUR chance, then, mate. You've a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to provide us, in minute and intimate DETAIL, with info about your CEO position and your Manhattan penthouse. Don't forget to tell us about your stock options!!!