|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:52 am Post subject: The Korean and American civil wars revisited |
 |
|
In case you missed it, there is an article on the Korean War in American Heritage magazine this month:
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/2010/3/2010_3_16.shtml
American Heritage has a long tradition of objective, insightful writing about history, and this is no exception. There is a lot of ignorance and misinformation surrounding this period of history. This one article won't clear up everything, but it is a good starting point.
Speaking of ignorance, a lot of foreigners are unfamiliar with America's Civil War; many don't even know what century it took place in, and some Koreans don't even know we had one, too.
This is the 150th anniversary of the American Civil War. And speaking of misinformation, AH has some articles, such as, was Jefferson Davis captured wearing a dress? The New York Times has new articles almost every day, some tracking events as they happened, 150 years ago. They are surprisingly interesting and relevant to understanding American politics today. And you thought the Civil War was over? Not in the South.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/27/three-flags/?ref=opinion
If you really want to understand the war, you need to go back to the beginning of the series in the NYT. What struck me was that the Southern states took steps toward secession shortly after Lincoln was elected with about 40 percent of the vote, not exactly a mandate, under the pretext that he would abolish slavery. And the wealthy slave owners gathered in totally undemocratic statewide meetings to call for secession, without any vote of the people.The Confederacy lacked political parties, and it is unclear whether its government was democratically elected. There was not even the semblance of legality to their actions in most cases, yet this was the basis for starting a war that killed millions of Americans, speaking of misunderstandings.
To catch up, here is a timeline:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/opinion/28disunion.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=all |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Excellent post!
I would also like to offer some links and titles for those that would be interested in getting more into the conflict-
One of the landmark productions regarding the Civil War was the Ken Burns Miniseries. A good introduction to the war for those who have had minimal exposure to the war. If you choose to get more into the war you can have fun going back and picking at nits regarding the series.
Episode 1: The Cause
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8374525609478249503&hl=en&emb=1#
If you have a dry eye at the end of the episode you have a cold, cold ,heart. My NET coworker, who knew nothing of the Civil War, was in tears at the end. From there on she watched every single episode and can now hum "The Battle Cry of Freedom" and was in love with Robert E. Lee.
Episode 2: A Very Bloody Affair
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5160719952322747305#
Episode 3: Forever Free
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4284825845451252663&hl=en&emb=1#
Episode 4: Simply Murder
http://america.docuwat.ch/videos/the-civil-war/the-civil-war-04-simply-murder/?channel_id=0&skip=0
Episode 5: The Universe of Battle
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4284825845451252663&hl=en&emb=1#docid=-8455132265379036724
Episode 6: Valley of the Shadow of Death
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=344821753217114288#
Episode 7: Most Hallowed Ground
http://war.docuwat.ch/videos/the-civil-war/the-civil-war-07-most-hallowed-ground
Episode 8:: War is All Hell
http://war.docuwat.ch/videos/the-civil-war/the-civil-war-08-war-is-all-hell/?channel_id=9
Episode 9: The Better Angels of our Nature
http://war.docuwat.ch/videos/the-civil-war/the-civil-war-09-the-better-angels-of-our-nature/?channel_id=9
Great for deskwarming. Makes great background noise. The music is wonderful and Shelby Foote really makes the series shine. Plus it has Morgan Freeman, Jeremy Irons, Derek Jacobi, Ed Bearss, Sam Waterston, Garrison Keillor, Lawrence Fishburne, Arthur Miller, George Plimpton, Kurt Vonnegut, and Studs Terkel as voice actors.
Books-
Battle Cry of Freedom by James M. McPherson (1 volume history)
Military Memoirs of a Confederate by E.P. Alexander, the most historically accurate first hand account of the war. Remarkable in its dispassionate, scholastic approach to analyzing some of the major battles of the war.
Lee' Lieutenants: A Study in Command by Douglas S. Freeman. Once required reading at West Point. A great analysis of generalship. Really brings Lee's generals to life. You realize how much personality and temperament affects military operations.
Grant and Lee by J.F.C. Fuller. One of Britain''s foremost military analysts. Think Lee was better than Grant? Fuller challenges this legend.
The Killer Angels by Michael Sharra. The book that inspired the movie Gettysburg. Really remarkable work. For a long time it was the only historical novel on the Officer's Reading List at West Point.
Computer Games-
Sid Meier's Gettysburg! for the PC. Old game from the creator of the Civ series. Excellent game that captures the essence of Civil War tactics- Do you attack the flanks or the center? Concentrate or divide your forces? Wait for reinforcements or attack immediately? Retreat and save your forces for a counterattack or hold on in the hope that reinforcements arrive? And the answer changes every time. Some minor flaws with artillery and AI....
Take Command: 2nd Manassas- Basically the same game as Gettysburg only much newer. Some minor flaws with artillery and AI....
Scourge of War: Gettysburg- Same producers as TC2M. Even more updated game. Might not run well on your computer at school.
EDIT- I would also recommend doing an internet search for Civil War letters and action reports. Union Brig. Gen. Alexander Hays is great for quotes, especially in regards to the Harper's Ferry Brigade he commanded during the Gettysburg Campaign. Civil War letters to loved ones are great as well. Many of them are just as profound as the famous Sullivan Ballou letter.
Last edited by Steelrails on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Steelrails,
Thanks for posting the links to Ken Burns' series. I watched it when it first came out and loved it. I just watched the first episode again tonight. The song Ashokan Farewell is a beautiful piece and was perfect for the series.
McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom is an excellent book. Also, read (or listen to) works by Bruce Catton.
I'll again watch part 2 tomorrow... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bluelake wrote: |
Steelrails,
Thanks for posting the links to Ken Burns' series. I watched it when it first came out and loved it. I just watched the first episode again tonight. The song Ashokan Farewell is a beautiful piece and was perfect for the series.
McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom is an excellent book. Also, read (or listen to) works by Bruce Catton.
I'll again watch part 2 tomorrow... |
Heh, I started watching it again this evening as well thanks to this thread. Seems I put it on every few months or so. It's almost soothing. Some of the quotes are absolutely stunning in their eloquence and insightfulness. Really puts modern day speech and commentary to shame.
Heh, I have Catton's "Grant Takes Command" on my night stand. Certainly makes me want to read another one of his works, he is after all, one of the giants of Civil War history. So many books, so little time....
Figured someone who is into muskets would be into the Civil War...
EDIT- It would be nice to see a comparable series about the Korean War with a good showing on the Korean experience in the war, replete with the "atmosphere" that filled Burns' production, things like primary source quotations, music, ironies, melancholy tone, and bringing people involved to life, and of course, the Korean versions of Shelby Foote & Ed Bearss.
PPS- Lorena is another great song that was featured.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fZCvRAF9ko
and Weeping, Sad & Lonely... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk9nEpDhL0g |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
Heh, I have Catton's "Grant Takes Command" on my night stand. Certainly makes me want to read another one of his works, he is after all, one of the giants of Civil War history. So many books, so little time.... |
Bruce Catton and I share the same hometown in Michigan and some of his relatives are still there.
| Quote: |
Figured someone who is into muskets would be into the Civil War... |
Yeah, there probably is a relationship. I had relatives on both sides of the family in the ACW. My paternal g-grandfather, along with his half-brother, were the first two Indians in the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters (Co. B); later an entire company (K) was set up for Indians. On my mother's side, she had a g-uncle who was in a NY regiment; he was wounded, lost a leg, and was a POW in a southern camp--he lived to the age of 92 and my mom took care of him towards the end (she was just a young girl at the time).
One I wish had been featured would have been Tenting on the Old Campground: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9kfwle5Cqg&feature=related |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice post.
From the article-
| Quote: |
Rhee�s dictatorial tendencies would eventually find full flower when he became South Korea�s first president in 1948.
Rhee�s campaign to remove all leftists from political influence, in addition to such unconstitutional actions as arbitrary arrests, detentions, and torture of opponents, soon provoked nationwide anger that swelled into armed resistance. |
| Quote: |
| In 1949 Rhee�s government had initiated a series of attacks upon the North Korean forces stationed along the 38th parallel. Because he lacked sufficient troops and equipment to launch a serious push north, Rhee provoked the fighting not only to command Washington�s attention and stimulate an outpouring of military and financial aid but also to provide a pretext for cracking down on leftist opponents. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What's all this about America and history? 
Haha nah I jest, interesting articles one and all, man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
You may want to look at "Andersonville," by John Frankenheimer, a harrowing account of survival in a Confederate prisoner of war camp.
On a lighter note, there is the fictional slice of life story of a Quaker family during the Civil War, "Friendly Persuasion." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bluelake wrote: |
Bruce Catton and I share the same hometown in Michigan and some of his relatives are still there. |
Michigan has such a wonderful record in the Civil War. I am more informed about the Eastern Theater, so for me some of the standouts are the 24th Michigan which fought at Gettysburg and went toe to toe with the 26th North Carolina (nearly twice its size) and gave them quite the lickin on the First Day of Gettysburg (at a horrific cost). At the same battle was George Sears Greene, who helped develop Detroit, and was responsible for holding Culp's Hill on the 2nd day of the battle (basically Chamberlain's stand on the right side of the Union lines) Also at Gettysburg (my specialty, I know, very cliched) was Custer and his Rabid Wolverines.
| Quote: |
Yeah, there probably is a relationship. I had relatives on both sides of the family in the ACW. My paternal g-grandfather, along with his half-brother, were the first two Indians in the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters (Co. B); later an entire company (K) was set up for Indians. On my mother's side, she had a g-uncle who was in a NY regiment; he was wounded, lost a leg, and was a POW in a southern camp--he lived to the age of 92 and my mom took care of him towards the end (she was just a young girl at the time).
Quote: |
While I'm familiar with my family's record in WWII, I don't know anything about my ancestors in the Civil War.  Remarkable that your g-uncle survived internment.
Here's another link that I found, this on the USS Monitor
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/monitor/tour.html
I would SERIOUSLY encourage everyone out there during their desk-warming time this season to put Ken Burns' Civil War on their computer and go about browsing the net or playin Bejeweled or whatever and give it a listen. You won't regret it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Steelrails"]
| bluelake wrote: |
| Quote: |
Yeah, there probably is a relationship. I had relatives on both sides of the family in the ACW. My paternal g-grandfather, along with his half-brother, were the first two Indians in the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters (Co. B); later an entire company (K) was set up for Indians. On my mother's side, she had a g-uncle who was in a NY regiment; he was wounded, lost a leg, and was a POW in a southern camp--he lived to the age of 92 and my mom took care of him towards the end (she was just a young girl at the time).
Quote: |
While I'm familiar with my family's record in WWII, I don't know anything about my ancestors in the Civil War. Remarkable that your g-uncle survived internment.
|
My mother's g-uncle (my g-g-uncle) became part of a prisoner exchange shortly into his internment. As mentioned, he was wounded (shot in the leg) and a butcher of a doctor took it off (not leaving enough skin to properly cover the stump). He was traded, as it was expected he wouldn't live long. However, also as mentioned, he lived to the age of 92.
Actually, my g-grandfather was also a POW. His story was kind of interesting (and he had several mentions in the book about the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters, These Men Have Seen Hard Service, by Ray Herek http://www.amazon.com/These-Have-Seen-Hard-Service/dp/0814326722 ). In 1863, he deserted--not out of cowardice, but from boredom; his company was assigned prison guard duty at Camp Douglas in Illinois, which had a notorious reputation (much like Andersonville in the South). He was captured and given extra duties as punishment. Later, the 1st MI SS took part in the Battle of Reams Station and my g-grandfather was captured; he sat out the rest of the war as a POW. He lived to the age of 82, when my dad was about three months old.
A hometown acquaintance of mine was one of the US Navy divers who helped recover the Monitor. He just retired from the service this past fall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
An interesting article on the Civil War, with a local New York angle:
| Quote: |
Martha Plumb�s heart broke, and she feared the worst as she set pen to paper to inquire about her husband.
�I sent my dear husband forth to battle with a pure motive, as all true patriot women aught to,� she wrote. �He was a kind man to me, and it was hard to part with him, so kind sirs, if you will please write to me soon as you get this, God will bless you.�
The letter, dated April 24, 1863, and decorated with a bald eagle on top, was lost in history until recently.
Mrs. Plumb is not a major historical figure, but her letter captures the experience of thousands of Civil War brides and family members desperately seeking word of their beloved soldiers.
Over the next three years, the fates of those soldiers will be revealed by archivists and conservators at the New York Public Library as they arrange, repair and hand-wash an enormous collection of Civil War documents known as the United States Sanitary Commission Records. |
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/a-look-at-life-during-civil-wartime/?scp=3&sq=civil%20war%20reading%20list&st=cse
Sometimes it is the little human details that make history come alive.
Speaking of which, if you want to read a fascinating book about World War II, I suggest "Is Paris Burning?" It is built up out of hundreds of interviews of individuals connected to the last days of German occupation, producing a huge quilt of human detail.
For the non-human view of the Civil War, there's:
| Quote: |
BOOKS OF THE TIMES
America�s War, British View
By DWIGHT GARNER
Published: October 15, 2009
John Keegan � dapper, lantern-jawed, a man who pounds facts into place as if with a sledgehammer � is the military historian�s military historian. A longtime senior lecturer at the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, he is the author of 20 fearsomely erudite books, including �The Second World War,� �The Battle for History� and �The Face of Battle.� If he did not exist, the History Channel would not be able to invent him.
Jerry Bauer
John Keegan
THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR
A Military History
By John Keegan
Illustrated. 396 pages. Alfred A. Knopf. $35.
Related
Excerpt: �The American Civil War� (October 16, 2009)
The Sunday Book Review on �The American Civil War� (November 1, 2009)
Mr. Keegan�s new book, �The American Civil War,� bristles with data that will send a thrill down any military geek�s leg: details about tactics, geography, economics, ideology, generals, psychology, demographics, weaponry, even weather. But the human element has, puzzlingly, gone missing. Distant and chilly, �The American Civil War� seems to have been written by a mainframe computer buried deep in a fortified bunker. It�s as soulful as a stack of punch cards. |
Maybe it's just as well he doesn't focus on people:
| Quote: |
Mr. Keegan is opinionated, and a few of his opinions will be fighting words for some. Sherman�s march is likened to Hitler�s campaigns in Eastern Europe. He writes sensitively of the experience of black soldiers during the war, but observes, �Faced by the ferocity of their Southern antagonists on the battlefield, they simply could not stand up to combat as white soldiers did.�
He writes about Southern women as if he is commenting on the Westminster dog show: �Southern women are a distinctive breed even today, admired for their femininity and outward-going personality.� |
(I have the feeling he's watched Gone With The Wind once too often.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/books/16garner.html
Of course, there are many books about the Civil War available online for free, their copyrights having long since expired. Perhaps the most famous are the memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant:
http://manybooks.net/authors/grantuly.html
Ken Burns did an excellent documentary on Grant. It really made Grant come alive. When I visited his tomb, I wept.
Any other free ebooks on the subject anyone cares to recommend? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gatsby wrote: |
Of course, there are many books about the Civil War available online for free, their copyrights having long since expired. Perhaps the most famous are the memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant:
http://manybooks.net/authors/grantuly.html
|
Thanks, Gatsby! Although the section that interests me the most is only a paragraph long (in Grant's state of the union address for 1871), it was valuable.
You might like to check out http://www.gutenberg.org for all kinds of free titles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
travel zen
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ken Burns Documentary is fantastic.
Never thought i'd be interested in ACW, but he did a great job ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's a bit of news I think those of us on this thread should be aware of-
http://www.civilwar.org/take-action/speak-out/wilderness-walmart/
Walmart is trying to build one of its stores where the edge of the Federal right flank was during the Battle of the Wilderness.
There is an on-line petition going on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Many people erroneously think the most American lives lost in a war was WW2 (416,800 military deaths), some even think it was the Vietnam War (58,245 military deaths), but Civil War was by far the worse. 618,000 soldiers dead.
After accounting for ineptitude of some of the generals, a major factor in the amount of deaths was that the military tactics didn't keep up with the weaponry. West Point was still training officers in tactics from a century earlier, guns and cannons fired much more rapidly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
