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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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I am glad someone gets the point.
Canada has given a lot back to the First Nations. But that is not a simple topic. You can't compare those actions with modern morality.
I am not Antisemetic. I am in favour of Palestine getting its own state without Israeli presence, wthout blockades, and with their own independence.
Recession time: Absoluely correct. Harper hasbeen willing to stand up for Canada on occasion but Israel is not a topic he will do it on. Some Palestinian fires a rocket into Israel, killing 1-2 soldiers. Israel sends in their army and 100+ Palestinians die, mostly civilians. Meanwhile, every western country condemns Palestine. Rinse and repeat.
Junior: Jews were victims up until WW2. After that, they made others the victims. I guess turnabout is fair play?
| Fox wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| BoholDiver wrote: |
I am glad someone is willing to stand up to the 'Chosen people'.
I wish Canada would do the same. |
lol this is a sick joke. Canadian government would never utter anything anti-Jewish. |
Being opposed to Israel is not the same thing as being opposed to the Jewish people. |
Well, being opposed to the actions of Israel isn't the same as being opposed to the Jewish people. Being opposed to the concept of Israel on the other hand is fairly anti-Jewish. I assume you meant the former, but it's an important distinction to make. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I don't believe in any particular Jewish right to the Holy Land, as I fail to see any non-religious justification for such. |
How about...the fact that they were there first.?
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| given a choice to go back in time, I'd push for a Jewish state in a place less volatile than the most volatile place in the world. |
If you mean that Jerusalem is volatile in the sense that it is spiritually significant to muslims.. its not. They just say that. If the Jews moved to the top of everest, then muslims would suddenly claim the peak as "a muslim holy site" and it would become a "volatile" area.
| BoholDiver wrote: |
| Jews were victims up until WW2. After that, they made others the victims. I guess turnabout is fair play? |
Its just unfortunate that palestinians are in the way, and do not recognise the legal ownership of the Israelis. What would you do if you returned home to find squatters in your house ? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I don't believe in any particular Jewish right to the Holy Land, as I fail to see any non-religious justification for such. |
How about...the fact that they were there first.?
| Quote: |
| given a choice to go back in time, I'd push for a Jewish state in a place less volatile than the most volatile place in the world. |
If you mean that Jerusalem is volatile in the sense that it is spiritually significant to muslims.. its not. They just say that. If the Jews moved to the top of everest, then muslims would suddenly claim the peak as "a muslim holy site" and it would become a "volatile" area. |
1) They were there first is a ridiculously specious argument when it comes to migrations that occurred nearly two thousand years ago.
2) Jerusalem is holy to Muslims in the same way that it is holy to Christians, with the addition of being the place where Muhammad experienced the Isra, whereby he flew to Jerusalem one night (or so says the Quran). Moreover, while Palestinians (and Arabs in general) are majority Muslim, there are still a lot of Christians within their ranks who are just as pissed off at Israel's behavior as their Muslim counterparts. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| Or at least offer them citizenship and voting rights like Israel doe.... |
When you've murdered 99% of them and swamped their country with whiteys, its hardly any risk to you to give voting rights to the remaining handful.
Throw in a doggy bag for them if it makes you feel better. Squatting on their land. |
Mind showing me where you're gettign these stats from? That Canada (or the British at the time) killed off 99% of Native Canadians. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| They were there first is a ridiculously specious argument when it comes to migrations that occurred nearly two thousand years ago. |
Actually their history in Israel goes back a bit longer than 2000 years. Yes, they have not always been a demographic majority in that area, but they have always been present there at least.
I still don't hear you objecting to Chile. Or condemning the dozens of other oppressive regimes around the world for their violations. Why this total obsession with a tiny country called Israel exactly? |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, there were there. Then lost it to a war, left, got kicked out, wandered the desert, etc. They left. Sad, so sad. They come back and low and behold, someone else moved in.
I guess they claimed it by right of abandonment. Then UK gives Zionists a bunch of weapons and supplies, and here we are.
For anyone blasting Canada for their treatment of First Nations, look at your own history.
UK: Oppressed India among other colonies, had countless wars with France over land, etc.
USA: Treated their natives just as bad. Brought democracy (aka war) to Iraq and Afghanistan. Constantly interferes in the world affairs.
Australia: Treats the aboriginies badly. Originally a dumping ground for lepers and criminals.
NZ: Treats Maoris and others badly.
South Africa: Don't even get me started on this one.
France: War in North Africa, countless battles with England.
Korea: Over 1000 years of effective slavery, human rights violations left right and centre. Stealing land and gunning down unarmed fishermen.
Japan: Occupied Korea for 40+ years, cultural genocide and whitewashing. Comfort women.
We all have a shooty past it seems. But injustices such as there still happening today are by and far the worst.
| Junior wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| They were there first is a ridiculously specious argument when it comes to migrations that occurred nearly two thousand years ago. |
Actually their history in Israel goes back a bit longer than 2000 years. Yes, they have not always been a demographic majority in that area, but they have always been present there at least.
I still don't hear you objecting to Chile. Or condemning the dozens of other oppressive regimes around the world for their violations. Why this total obsession with a tiny country called Israel exactly? |
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Koharski
Mod Team
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Can we please get back to the original topic and get off this "your country is just as bad" garbage?
Koharski |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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[quote="BoholDiver"] For anyone blasting Canada for their treatment of First Nations, look at your own history.
We all have a shooty past it seems. |
Right. You got it. Which is why I get nauseous whenever one country tries to erase their own feelings of guilt by pointing the finger at another. The US and UK for example took great delight in declaring South Africa racist and imposing sanctions. It was an exercise in self-righteousness. They felt better by criminalising someone else. In reality the aim of the hidden powers driving the anti-apartheid media frenzy was to dismantle an economic competitor so they could move in their own exploitative multi-national companies.
| Quote: |
| But injustices such as there still happening today are by and far the worst. |
Not sure what you mean by this exactly...
There was a genocide of native americans. Millions died, a culture and ecosystem was erased.
But you're saying that the odd Palestinian killed in an air raid is far worse than all of that?
My main point is: you and others appear to have a disproportionate focus on and disapproval of Israel. It is racism, pure and simple.
If human rights are what you were interested in, then you would have already shown some outrage at Chile for their treatment of natives, or any number of other unjust regimes in the world.
Instead though we just get thread after thread criticising israel. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I find modern actions like this more despicable because of advances in education and morality. 200 years ago, taking land from some 'uncultured savages' could be justified. You, Junior are a history revisionist.
But now you call me racist? 2 problems with that.
1. I want people to have freedom and independence without fear of starvation, persecution, and being killed. This is racist????
2. You calling me a racist is just you trying to win an argument by calling me names. Try harder, you're not winning.
But Junior, you are one of the modern 'enlightened' people, I guess. You know, whiteys are evil for what we did in the past, but any peaking against Jews is antisemetic. They suffered so they can do anything they want.
Look in the mirror and say your points again. If you don't see a total hypocrite, I'll buy you a pizza pie.
[quote="Junior"]
| Quote: |
| BoholDiver wrote: |
For anyone blasting Canada for their treatment of First Nations, look at your own history.
We all have a shooty past it seems. |
Right. You got it. Which is why I get nauseous whenever one country tries to erase their own feelings of guilt by pointing the finger at another. The US and UK for example took great delight in declaring South Africa racist and imposing sanctions. It was an exercise in self-righteousness. They felt better by criminalising someone else. In reality the aim of the hidden powers driving the anti-apartheid media frenzy was to dismantle an economic competitor so they could move in their own exploitative multi-national companies.
| Quote: |
| But injustices such as there still happening today are by and far the worst. |
Not sure what you mean by this exactly...
There was a genocide of native americans. Millions died, a culture and ecosystem was erased.
But you're saying that the odd Palestinian killed in an air raid is far worse than all of that?
My main point is: you and others appear to have a disproportionate focus on and disapproval of Israel. It is racism, pure and simple.
If human rights are what you were interested in, then you would have already shown some outrage at Chile for their treatment of natives, or any number of other unjust regimes in the world.
Instead though we just get thread after thread criticising israel. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| dem chews tuk awer jerbs~ |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
My main point is: you and others appear to have a disproportionate focus on and disapproval of Israel. It is racism, pure and simple. |
Israel is a state that portrays itself as a modern democratic republic. It has one of the closest relationships of any state with my country. And my country is committed to supporting Israel militarily if necessary.
So I'm going to go ahead and hold them to a higher standard than Zimbabwe. I honestly don't care what race, religion or ethnicity lives there. But I do expect them to have a solid human rights record to maintain a close relationship with the U.S.
Perhaps more importantly, if I were born into a country where I would never have the right to vote, nor the right to legally secede, violence would likely ensue. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
There was a genocide of native americans. Millions died, a culture and ecosystem was erased. |
You still have yet to offer ANY proof as to your assertion regarding this in Canada.
Mind stepping up to the plate? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
There was a genocide of native americans. Millions died, a culture and ecosystem was erased. |
You still have yet to offer ANY proof as to your assertion regarding this in Canada.
Mind stepping up to the plate? |
Well obviously natives were running the show before you pitched up. They're not now. Instead you have millions of white guys swarming all over the land they used to live on. Care to explain?
"Welcome to the Genocide in Canada blog site, which will circulate information, analysis and current events regarding the struggle to bring to justice the perpetrators of Crimes Against Humanity in Canada.
The first issue we wish to address on this site is the fate of more than 50,000 aboriginal children who died or were killed..."
http://genocideincanada.blogspot.com/2005/11/genocide-in-canada.html
But we're digressing from the thread topic. My point is.. that all nations have blood on their hands. And that the focus and criticism of israel is blatantly disproportionate and excessive. It is racist in nature.
And no, I still haven't heard a word of condemnation for Chile regarding their oppression of the natives. Strange that, from a thread claiming to be full of ambassadors of human rights. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| And no, I still haven't heard a word of condemnation for Chile regarding their oppression of the natives. Strange that, from a thread claiming to be full of ambassadors of human rights. |
Israel isn't necessarily a human rights issue. The Israel/Palestine issue is one that has helped to destabilize an entire region for more than sixty years. The issue of Chile's natives is one that no one in the international community particularly cares about. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| The Israel/Palestine issue is one that has helped to destabilize an entire region for more than sixty years. |
Actually the region was always unstable, even long before Jews begun to return to Israel. The history of countries in the middle east is hardly quiet and peaceful.
The area now known as Israel has been invaded by successive military conquests since time immemorial.
You could make the same statement about muslims in the Balkans. Destabilization tends to happen wherever muslims go. |
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