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jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: Avoiding public schools cause of new rules? |
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I'm currently at a middle school, and I'm wondering if it's still a good idea to work at a public school with the new rules stating that you are not allowed to punish bad behavior (i.e. having students stand at the back of the room, having them put their their hands on their head, ...).
Maintaining order in a class of 30+ students is hard enough, but, without any form of punishment for misbehaving students, I'm thinking it'll be hell to teach in a public school next year.
Anyone else think this will be the case? |
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sluggo832004
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Avoiding public schools cause of new rules? |
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| jst wrote: |
I'm currently at a middle school, and I'm wondering if it's still a good idea to work at a public school with the new rules stating that you are not allowed to punish bad behavior (i.e. having students stand at the back of the room, having them put their their hands on their head, ...).
Maintaining order in a class of 30+ students is hard enough, but, without any form of punishment for misbehaving students, I'm thinking it'll be hell to teach in a public school next year.
Anyone else think this will be the case? |
Welcome to the American School System. |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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At a hagwon, you do have less students to deal with.
However, students usually get praised and are given lollipops by the administration when they misbehave and you're the one who's scolded. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: |
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can't make them stand in the corner(s)?
I somehow suspect these new rules if such won't exist in my school.
I'll just throw them out of the classroom. |
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jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
can't make them stand in the corner(s)?
I somehow suspect these new rules if such won't exist in my school.
I'll just throw them out of the classroom. |
I was told by my co-teacher that students have a "legal right to learn", so I'm not allowed to remove misbehaving students from the classroom. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| jst wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
can't make them stand in the corner(s)?
I somehow suspect these new rules if such won't exist in my school.
I'll just throw them out of the classroom. |
I was told by my co-teacher that students have a "legal right to learn", so I'm not allowed to remove misbehaving students from the classroom. |
that ought to be interesting.
I was joking with my main coteacher about the rules about corporal punishment and grooming/hair length etc when they came into effect last year, but seemed to be widely ignored by the K teachers at my school  |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Avoiding public schools cause of new rules? |
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| sluggo832004 wrote: |
Welcome to the American School System. |
Ha! +1
The thing is, Koreans VALUE education much more than we do in the US. Use it to your advantage.
There are so many ways to manage a classroom that don't involve corporal or physical punishment. You can still hold children accountable for their actions without hitting them, making them stand, etc...
First things first. At the start of the new semester create a positive behavior system. It should be designed to be constantly rewarding good behavior. The kids that come into class and open their books get a point. The kids that raise their hands get points. Make a big deal out of it. For example, a kid doesn't have a pencil. His friend lets him borrow one. Instead of saying, Junho.....you forgot your pencil again?! (negative) Say, "Wow! Mingyu, that was so nice of you to loan your pencil!" (positive) Keep everything positive as much as possible. Reward participation. Reward Make positive calls home. Have lunch parties with the students (play Kpop music and funny youtube videos and jenga in your classroom while eating lunch). Free Homework passes, etc...So many things you can do for rewards that don't involve you spending even 100W of money.
For the kids that don't step in line setup a clearly defined system that holds them accountable for their actions. First step, verbal warning. Second step a reflection form that their parents have to sign. Third step, a phone call home (your coteacher or you take them out of the classroom immediately, march them to the office and call their parents. The student has to explain why he is interrupting their parents at work.) Fourth step parent student teacher meeting. Rarely will you have to go beyond that, in which case administration needs to step in. And for a kid to go that far in 40 minutes, they are already aware of him/her. So it shouldn't be an issue having your co-teacher bring it up.
Again, punishment was not banned. Corporal (physical) punishment was. I'm not going to say if corporal punishment is effective or morally right or not. What I am saying is that there are other ways that are highly effective. Unfortunately, many teachers (NETs and KETs) have not been trained in how to do them. |
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jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Avoiding public schools cause of new rules? |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| sluggo832004 wrote: |
Welcome to the American School System. |
Ha! +1
The thing is, Koreans VALUE education much more than we do in the US. Use it to your advantage.
There are so many ways to manage a classroom that don't involve corporal or physical punishment. You can still hold children accountable for their actions without hitting them, making them stand, etc...
First things first. At the start of the new semester create a positive behavior system. It should be designed to be constantly rewarding good behavior. The kids that come into class and open their books get a point. The kids that raise their hands get points. Make a big deal out of it. For example, a kid doesn't have a pencil. His friend lets him borrow one. Instead of saying, Junho.....you forgot your pencil again?! (negative) Say, "Wow! Mingyu, that was so nice of you to loan your pencil!" (positive) Keep everything positive as much as possible. Reward participation. Reward Make positive calls home. Have lunch parties with the students (play Kpop music and funny youtube videos and jenga in your classroom while eating lunch). Free Homework passes, etc...So many things you can do for rewards that don't involve you spending even 100W of money.
For the kids that don't step in line setup a clearly defined system that holds them accountable for their actions. First step, verbal warning. Second step a reflection form that their parents have to sign. Third step, a phone call home (your coteacher or you take them out of the classroom immediately, march them to the office and call their parents. The student has to explain why he is interrupting their parents at work.) Fourth step parent student teacher meeting. Rarely will you have to go beyond that, in which case administration needs to step in. And for a kid to go that far in 40 minutes, they are already aware of him/her. So it shouldn't be an issue having your co-teacher bring it up.
Again, punishment was not banned. Corporal (physical) punishment was. I'm not going to say if corporal punishment is effective or morally right or not. What I am saying is that there are other ways that are highly effective. Unfortunately, many teachers (NETs and KETs) have not been trained in how to do them. |
I have attempted a system like you suggest (except for being "positive" all the time, because that's not realistic.). The issue is dealing with multiple co-teachers. Not all co-teachers will agree to such a system, and if they do, then they may apply it some days, and other days not apply it.
This results in the students getting confused. One time they may be deserving of a point, but the co-teacher (when I'm not present), doesn't give them that point. They become less motivated to get points, because they are not always rewarded.
It seems to go well up until Summer vacation, but after Summer vacation it goes downhill fast.
Last edited by jst on Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:41 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Avoiding public schools cause of new rules? |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| sluggo832004 wrote: |
Welcome to the American School System. |
Ha! +1
The thing is, Koreans VALUE education much more than we do in the US. Use it to your advantage.
There are so many ways to manage a classroom that don't involve corporal or physical punishment. You can still hold children accountable for their actions without hitting them, making them stand, etc...
First things first. At the start of the new semester create a positive behavior system. It should be designed to be constantly rewarding good behavior. The kids that come into class and open their books get a point. The kids that raise their hands get points. Make a big deal out of it. For example, a kid doesn't have a pencil. His friend lets him borrow one. Instead of saying, Junho.....you forgot your pencil again?! (negative) Say, "Wow! Mingyu, that was so nice of you to loan your pencil!" (positive) Keep everything positive as much as possible. Reward participation. Reward Make positive calls home. Have lunch parties with the students (play Kpop music and funny youtube videos and jenga in your classroom while eating lunch). Free Homework passes, etc...So many things you can do for rewards that don't involve you spending even 100W of money.
For the kids that don't step in line setup a clearly defined system that holds them accountable for their actions. First step, verbal warning. Second step a reflection form that their parents have to sign. Third step, a phone call home (your coteacher or you take them out of the classroom immediately, march them to the office and call their parents. The student has to explain why he is interrupting their parents at work.) Fourth step parent student teacher meeting. Rarely will you have to go beyond that, in which case administration needs to step in. And for a kid to go that far in 40 minutes, they are already aware of him/her. So it shouldn't be an issue having your co-teacher bring it up.
Again, punishment was not banned. Corporal (physical) punishment was. I'm not going to say if corporal punishment is effective or morally right or not. What I am saying is that there are other ways that are highly effective. Unfortunately, many teachers (NETs and KETs) have not been trained in how to do them. |
that's what I thought.. corporal banned, not other creative ways to punish them.. (including simply making them stand in the corner)
I do agree with everything you wrote here. but the entire idea of "keeping things always POSITIVE" did make me throw up chunks (a little)
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:45 am Post subject: |
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I love that idea. That kid is basically given the right to ruin the opportunity of 39 other kids to learn. That's how it read to me.
The truth is, you can remove students from the classroom. Just give them a worksheet or something to do and send them back to their homeroom or another teacher's class. That way they're still "learning" something. They're still practicing English and they are being supervised. You are covered.
In exchange for the other teacher watching your student, offer to accept her students to sit in the back of your class or in your office if they need to be removed from the classroom until they have composed themselves to return to class and join the rest of their classmates. I'm sure she has a few she would love to exercise that option with if she needs it. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:49 am Post subject: |
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I said and I meant as "much as possible".
Another example, the students are being really loud. Instead of getting frustrated and yelling or just shutting down. Say in a calm voice, "I'm sorry, I can't continue because there is too much noise." Turn off or cover the monitor. Then immediately start thanking the kids who are being quiet and are ready to learn. Give them a stamp or a sticker or move their name up or whatever it is you use as a reward. Half the kids that are talking will stop and hope to cash in on the reward and hope you didn't notice they were actually talking. Walk near the ones who are still talking and give them "your look". That should get a few more to be quiet. Some kids will complain, and you say, "I only give stamps to the kids who were quiet from the beginning. Next time, if you are quiet from the start, I will be sure to give you one." And smile. And walk away, don't stand there to continue arguing, YOU control the classroom. They already know what to expect, because you do this everyday. Then some students will tell the other 2 or 3 that are still talking to shut it. Then you should only have one or two more left at the worst case. In which you start your intervention system.(warnings, note home, phone calls)
What's really great about it, is when they are used to you being positive and kind and focusing on good behavior. It makes it that much more effective when you drop a bomb on them one of those days after exams are done and they are just out of control. If you never yell at them or show that you are mad or upset. And then one day you drop that bomb, they are going to know they messed up big.
If you can keep at this from day one, you will find it is a lot of work at first, and you really have to filter what you say, but the kids will really buy into it.
And yes, if you don't have the consistency it is not going to work.
Last edited by jrwhite82 on Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
I love that idea. That kid is basically given the right to ruin the opportunity of 39 other kids to learn. That's how it read to me.
The truth is, you can remove students from the classroom. Just give them a worksheet or something to do and send them back to their homeroom or another teacher's class. That way they're still "learning" something. They're still practicing English and they are being supervised. You are covered.
In exchange for the other teacher watching your student, offer to accept her students to sit in the back of your class or in your office if they need to be removed from the classroom until they have composed themselves to return to class and join the rest of their classmates. I'm sure she has a few she would love to exercise that option with if she needs it. |
That's pretty much how classes go for co-teachers that just want to teach their way. One kid disturbs the class, and everything comes to a halt.
The worksheet and exchanging bad students with teachers are great ideas. Thank you jrwhite82. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| jst wrote: |
That's pretty much how classes go for co-teachers that just want to teach their way.
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Where is the "co" in that? I've run into that before. Very frustrating. Especially with the rigid inhibitive hierarchy we find ourselves on the bottom of here. |
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jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| jst wrote: |
That's pretty much how classes go for co-teachers that just want to teach their way.
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Where is the "co" in that? I've run into that before. Very frustrating. Especially with the rigid inhibitive hierarchy we find ourselves on the bottom of here. |
Usually there is no "co". Often if my situation, when I want to do something different from their style of teaching, I'd have to convey an idea so that the co-teacher "magically" comes up with the idea. I then tell them, "Yes, what a great idea you've come up with." |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| jst wrote: |
Usually there is no "co". Often if my situation, when I want to do something different from their style of teaching, I'd have to convey an idea so that the co-teacher "magically" comes up with the idea. I then tell them, "Yes, what a great idea you've come up with." |
Ouch, sounds like you have carp coteachers. |
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