Korean Job Discussion Forums

[shakuhachi]

LOL there are plenty examples of real prejudice that emanates from Koreans but this is not one of them.

[tomato]

Hello, Shakuhachi!

I hope you're right, but I once saw a message from a second-generation American who was born and raised in Korea. He said that Koreans speak to him in English.

[Universalis]

A few weeks ago I had not one but two foreigners at my cafe who spoke nearly flawless Korean (if you read any Korean blogs, that would be Oranckay and DDA). Despite their near fluency, my staff *still* had a difficult time speaking to them in Korean.

It's a habit... when they wlak into a house, they take their shoes off, and when they speak to a non-Korean, it's in English.

Yea, the menu thing still bothers me... and the utterly superflous "waygookin" references still bother me... but there's not much you or I can do about it.

Brian

[Gladiator]

Here are my opinions.

1.)The Eugenics and blood/racial aspects factor into it massively. Koreans are educated and brought up to believe the Korean language can only be physically spoken and understood by Koreans. Sejong and his scholars designed Hoongminjong for Korean pallates only, so how can foreigners understand it? "Hearing Mr. foreigner speak Korean is like a tree asking for a cigarette" said one woman.

2.) There's no escaping the fact that it's an exceptionally culturally specific language, and a culturally exclusive language shaped by values and a worldview as different to English as it gets. Being fluent in the practical language is one thing but fluency in the attendant culture (knowing how to assimilate into groups, knowing one's 'status' in K society when foreigners have no status, knowing how to subjugate one's personal grief and personal preferences for the good of the group's Kibun, group protocol and all that guff) is the proverbial different gig. So understandably Koreans harbour a kind of monumental conceit (and often contempt) for foreigners trying to function in the nation's moguko. They see nothing in their language that is remotely transferable to foreigners therefore keep the buttons on their listening channels switched firmly to the 'off' position whenever they hear Caucasians speak the language.

3.) English fever is undoubtedly 80 percent of the issue. Foreigners are basically tools here and with English proficiency promising the path to the Eleysian (sp.?) fields of affluence, status and power if they don't speak the English they don't get the value. Plus throw in the monstrous peer pressure created inferiority complex they have about their own language (well why else would authority figures feel 'ashamed' of speaking their own tongue to foreigners? Who cares about the tired "World Language" homily? I don't actually know of any other nation that actually scolds its peers for speaking their language to outsiders).

4.) And it's appearance. You have to look slightly Asian to be "heard" consistently in the language.

5.) Ignorance is Prejudice's bedfellow. Take the Grand Canyonesque, Chasm like ignorance of most Koreans regarding foreigners living in their country. They don't know about the details (and concerns) of our daily lives and they are not interested in them. They don't imagine that speaking the language makes functioning in the country more bearable and saves on medical expenses at the Chonshin Byongwon for us because the 'bearability' of our lives isn't a tangible concept to them. Stereotypes fill the chasm like truckloads of porous cement and makes sure good old monolingual, lonely, hamburger eating, Korean illiterate Joe from Kansas has firm foundations on which to stand for decades to come.

[kangnamdragon]

[kangnamdragon]

[Wishmaster]

Simple. Ockham's razor. They don't want you to learn the language because you are a foreigner and not part of their little nationalistic clique. Period. End. You will never be Korean. Therefore, you are not important. When I first came to Korea I was really interested in studying the language. After a few months of dealing with the mentality around here, I decided to only learn the basics...enough to get me around. After all, I'm not going to spend the rest of my life in Korea and I can't foresee any benefits of learning the language. Not many people back in my city speak Korean. I don't bother to waste my time.

[peppermint]

I'm curious- what exactly do Korean people consider discriminatory?

I had a student today tell me that she would never, ever allow her daughter or son to marry a foreigner, but she assured me over, and over that "it's not discrimination though."

[dogbert]

[tomato]

Hello, Gladiator!

You have gotten me thinking of ways in which the Korean language distinguishes between grammatical persons in surprising ways.

The verb �ʹ� is used with the first person, but the verb �;��ϴ� is used with the second and third persons. If we stretch a point, we might call both words a conjugation of the same verb, but they seem to be generally accepted as two different words.

Even nouns can depend upon grammatical persons. I understand that there is a long list of words denoting one's own family members and another long list denoting another person's family members.

Even Korean sign language gets in on the act. This morning I learned that the gestures for �ִ� (give) and �޴� (receive) are dependent upon person.

When saying "I give to you" or "You receive," one makes a gesture moving the right hand forward toward the listener.
When saying "You give to me" or "I receive," one makes a gesture moving the right hand toward oneself.

But these two words are most relevant to Gladiator's message:
�츮����, which literally means "our country," gets listed in the dictionary as "Korea," and �츮��, which literally means "our language," gets listed as "Korean." When these two words came into existence, it apparently never occured to the Koreans that anyone but Koreans would ever speak Korean.

We must be cautious against casting stones, however. Like almost any language, we have the words "here" and "there," both of which are defined egocentrically. At least the Korean language considers the listener by subdividing "there" into �ű� and ����.

Furthermore, the Korean people probably wonder why European languages put their students through the grueling exercises of yo soy, tu eres, el es.

Last but not least, the word �ܱ����, which many of us find so offensive, has an equivalent in our language, and probably in any other language.

[jajdude]

I'd like it if more Koreans did speak to me in English, especially my students. But most of the ones I encounter simply don't have the English skills. In the classroom they know I understand some Korean. I'm not sure if that is helpful for them. Sometimes I can tell 'em what something means without using a dictionary I guess, or can understand what they say that they don't know how to put into English. But then they also aren't as forced to try to speak English as much as they are with the other foreigner who has no knowledge of Korean.

[Sliver]

tomato wrote

[shakuhachi]

I dont see whats wrong with Koreans using the word �츮 just because it clearly defines foreigners as outsiders. Koreans are entitled to their own identity and way of expressing themselves even if it does not conform to the prevailing politically correct ideology of the west.

[kangnamdragon]

I still don't see what's wrong with being called a foreigner.

[Universalis]