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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
Everyone hates giving up "free" stuff. If the people who actually pay into the system will put up with it, good for them. |
Anyone who works pays into the system. Although I could afford private health insurance, I would never vote for a party which promised to abolish public healthcare because I can't be sure that I won't have a terrible accident tomorrow which will rob me of my ability to work and therefore continue to pay insurance.
| comm wrote: |
Well you've got me there. If you consider conquest to be the duty of the state, you'll need guns... lots of guns. |
I don't, but those who wield power do.
| comm wrote: |
Wow. "The obvious reason" huh? Considering how much we pay per-student, per-year, I don't see how a privatized education system could do worse than the current U.S. education system. If subsidies continued to pay the same price per year per child that each costs now, private education could be amazing. |
I was talking about Europe, not the USA. And nearly every single European country has a superior primary and secondary education system to the USA according to the latest OECD PISA study. Given how countries like Canada, Finland, New Zealand, etc. can all manage decent state education system, I imagine it's more of a cultural problem in the States. I've never been there myself, but all the people I do know say that everything is unbelievably dumbed-down. IF that is true (and I accept that it may not be), then it is no surprise to see that a decent education system is not flourishing.
| comm wrote: |
| If there's a pressing need for job-loss insurance, I'm sure there are a number of firms up to the task of providing it. Also, you can put that compulsory 1% of your salary toward feeding the jobless. |
I thought that Sergio meant that the 1% would be compulsory but the recipient would be at the discretion of the contributor.
| comm wrote: |
| That's all the more reason to abandon the overly emotional 20th century thinking that led to big unions, trade protectionism, entangling international alliances, a failure of a public education system, a financial sector more powerful than our elected representatives, economic imperialism, and an incomprehensibly punitive tax code. |
Read Sergio's post again, very carefully and you'll see why I made that comment. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
You can sit there dreaming about all of these things as long as you like, but they aren't going to happen, because apart from a lunatic fringe minority (Daily Telegraph readers mainly), nobody supports these policies. You'll live and die under a social democratic model, which has provided a better quality of life than any other system which has ever existed.
By the way, did you know we're not in the twentieth century anymore?  |
Hurray, status quo!
Can I have more chronic unemployment, endemic corruption, and fruitless war with that serving of condescension, please? |
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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
You can sit there dreaming about all of these things as long as you like, but they aren't going to happen, because apart from a lunatic fringe minority (Daily Telegraph readers mainly), nobody supports these policies. You'll live and die under a social democratic model, which has provided a better quality of life than any other system which has ever existed.
By the way, did you know we're not in the twentieth century anymore? |
Hurray, status quo!
Can I have more chronic unemployment, endemic corruption, and fruitless war with that serving of condescension, please? |
No, not status quo, but it is perfectly possible to modify and improve a system rather than abolish it.
What is your alternative? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
You can sit there dreaming about all of these things as long as you like, but they aren't going to happen, because apart from a lunatic fringe minority (Daily Telegraph readers mainly), nobody supports these policies. You'll live and die under a social democratic model, which has provided a better quality of life than any other system which has ever existed.
By the way, did you know we're not in the twentieth century anymore? |
Hurray, status quo!
Can I have more chronic unemployment, endemic corruption, and fruitless war with that serving of condescension, please? |
No, not status quo, but it is perfectly possible to modify and improve a system rather than abolish it.
What is your alternative? |
I would prefer experimenting with Sergio's model, which I am sure is flawed, than continuing with the present model.
I do think that the Iron Law of Oligarchy ruins all classical liberal utopias, though. But Europe's current model of Social Democracy is fiscally unsustainable, and everyone knows it. There are other arguments against it, but I don't need them. European Social Democracy will either be altered or go bankrupt. |
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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
I would prefer experimenting with Sergio's model, which I am sure is flawed, than continuing with the present model.
I do think that the Iron Law of Oligarchy ruins all classical liberal utopias, though. But Europe's current model of Social Democracy is fiscally unsustainable, and everyone knows it. There are other arguments against it, but I don't need them. European Social Democracy will either be altered or go bankrupt. |
And have you actually got any evidence of anywhere in the world where this has been tried and worked?
As I have already said, I fully believe that the European model needs to be modified (like getting the French to work until 65) - people need to realise that they can't have absolutely everything, but abolishing the system which has led to the best quality of life that man has ever known, would be a massive step backwards. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
I would prefer experimenting with Sergio's model, which I am sure is flawed, than continuing with the present model.
I do think that the Iron Law of Oligarchy ruins all classical liberal utopias, though. But Europe's current model of Social Democracy is fiscally unsustainable, and everyone knows it. There are other arguments against it, but I don't need them. European Social Democracy will either be altered or go bankrupt. |
And have you actually got any evidence of anywhere in the world where this has been tried and worked? |
There have been Georgist experiments throughout the world, yes. You have some very weak Georgist states in the United States. One example is New Hampshire, which has a robust property tax but no standard income taxes (I lived there for a few years, its a well-run state). There are some other miscellaneous taxes there. Of course, New Hampshire residents must still pay Federal income taxes.
Europe is a large continent, and I would like to see a few countries experiment with some of Sergio's ideas.
| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
| As I have already said, I fully believe that the European model needs to be modified (like getting the French to work until 65) - people need to realise that they can't have absolutely everything, but abolishing the system which has led to the best quality of life that man has ever known, would be a massive step backwards. |
"The best quality of life that man has ever known" is debatable, especially in this economic climate. But I won't debate it because even if what you say is true, I believe we can do better. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| What Europe needs is new life, not a get rich quick scheme. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry to say. EU is failing strong and hard. The reasons are simple. The EU bureaucrats are dumb; they can't manage the Euro currency policy, they can't unify the legal issues.
I hope the world economy would recover. |
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