| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: Is Law School a Losing Game? |
 |
|
IF there is ever a class in how to remain calm while trapped beneath $250,000 in loans, Michael Wallerstein ought to teach it.
Here he is, sitting one afternoon at a restaurant on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, a tall, sandy-haired, 27-year-old radiating a kind of surfer-dude serenity. His secret, if that�s the right word, is to pretty much ignore all the calls and letters that he receives every day from the dozen or so creditors now hounding him for cash.
�And I don�t open the e-mail alerts with my credit score,� he adds. �I can�t look at my credit score any more.�
Mr. Wallerstein, who can�t afford to pay down interest and thus watches the outstanding loan balance grow, is in roughly the same financial hell as people who bought more home than they could afford during the real estate boom. But creditors can�t foreclose on him because he didn�t spend the money on a house.
He spent it on a law degree. And from every angle, this now looks like a catastrophic investment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Scruffey
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| That's a really interesting article. I've thought about the value of law school a lot recently and I'm realizing it may not be worth it for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think we could have a whole thread about what an idiot Michael Wallerstein is. Between almost buying a $350,000 home using his student loans, openly saying he doesn't keep track of his finances, making it sound as if he expects a bailout, and saying the financial predicament he's in was worth it for the prestige, he strikes me as the kind of interviewee a reporter finds once a year or so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tottenhamtaipeinick
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Michael Wallerstein
�It�s a prestige thing,� he says. �I�m an attorney. All of my friends see me as a person they look up to. They understand I�m in a lot of debt, but I�ve done something they feel they could never do and the respect and admiration is important.�
All his friends look up to him? lol he is close to homeless as he lives rent-free by looking after some old guy. Good thing he has his priorities in order worrying about how good he looks to his friends. Isn't that what friends do anyway support you? and to think he is getting married?. I wonder if he will try get another loan for that! What an idiot! He went to one of the worst schools and got a degree and left with probably no connections.
I wonder how he proposed to her? probably something like this "My Darling I love you and want you to help pay off my debt...ah shit I meant to say be my wife"
He left his future to the wind. I really hate people who study Business and Law and do nothing but study without making connections throughout the way, its like looking at someone who looks smart but really is dumb. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jb99
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If you are looking for prestige, then it will likely be a losing game, no matter what field you're in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tottenhamtaipeinick wrote: |
Michael Wallerstein
It�s a prestige thing,� he says. �I�m an attorney. All of my friends see me as a person they look up to. They understand I�m in a lot of debt, but I�ve done something they feel they could never do and the respect and admiration is important.� |
Hmmm... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tottenhamtaipeinick wrote: |
| He left his future to the wind. I really hate people who study Business and Law and do nothing but study without making connections throughout the way, its like looking at someone who looks smart but really is dumb. |
I'm not sure he really had a choice, given the school he went to. It's a bottom of the barrel law school that was only about ten years old when he first went there. His biggest mistake was probably going to a place where he had no connections to begin with nor serious plans to settle down. One thing that's often mentioned when it comes to going to law school in the States is that you really want to go to school close to the area you want to live in, as regional prominence is often more important than overall rankings when it comes to getting hired (outside of the very top tier).
That said, I still think he's an idiot with an overblown sense of entitlement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Michael Wallerstein
It�s a prestige thing,� he says. �I�m an attorney. All of my friends see me as a person they look up to. They understand I�m in a lot of debt, but I�ve done something they feel they could never do and the respect and admiration is important.� |
Several people within my extended social circle share exactly the same sentiments and situation as Wallerstein. I struck up a conversation with a University of Florida grad at an Xmas party last year. I asked him what he did for a living and he beamed "I'm an attorney". Oh, where from, where do you work, how is it? He worked for a "document review" shop that paid 12/hr and zero benefits. He was very proud. He literally works in a basement.
3 years @ 40k/yr tuition + living expenses for a JD is obscene.
I'm generally on the 'screw the banksters team'. These JD's made terrible decisions though. Of my peers who are in law school now two drive BMW's (leased) and live in brand new condos @ rent of 1500$+. They are paid for with student debt (and credit cards, I assume). Their standard of living will dramatically drop after they graduate, which is a 180reversal from what should happen. One guy who leases a BMW did an MBA at a very expensive school - all on debt - and couldn't find a job. He did the logical thing and went to law school. He'll have 9 years of school @30kyr tuition avg. 300k almost. Enough to buy a couple Subway franchises in smaller cities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyui
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
How about a litigation paralegal? It is only a M.A.
http://legalcareers.about.com/od/legalspecialties/a/litigationparal.htm
Same thing as a lawyer, but more entry level. They are right, there
is really no money in law unless you work on the IP/Policy side.
Last edited by cyui on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:52 am; edited 5 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Out of my alumni many went to law school. Out of the onese I've kept contact with, all of them are working government in some area that has nothing to do with law.
I think law school is a good idea if A) You can get into a good school and B) You already have connections going in to fall back on if things don't work out after you graduate.
It is true that too many people are going to law school these days. I got in to a few decent Canadian law schools many years ago but didn't end up going because of cost and a general lack of interest. I think many people these days want prestige and respect and put those things first before what they are actually interested in.
I actually believe if you are passionate about and genuinely interested in your field then you will be fine and jobs will be there. Too many people don't fall into this category though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh yeah, Doc Review attorneys have some of the worst jobs imaginable. They have these people work all types of insane hours, including holidays like New Years and Christmas for crap pay.
Over Christmas, I was talking to my cousin who was thinking about law school and I remember putting the trade off in stark terms. Discussing the debt she would have to incur, I asked her if she wanted a JD or a family, house and home. Pick one, because you can't have both. Honestly, I recommended that she go teach English in Korea to pay off her exiting debt and start to build her savings.
___________________________________________________________
Has anyone taken a look at the CE forum's For-Profit Colleges: What a Scam? The thread starts off with another really good piece from the NYT regarding the state of higher education in the US. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyui
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Why are you guys talking about law? No one on here is a lawyer.
Last edited by cyui on Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ^ I don't know where you are getting this information, but I can tel you I don't know any paralegals making 60K right after getting their certificates. Indeed, I know one who is working for K&E working i-banker like hours. I get the impression that this person makes something in the upper 40s. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyui
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
