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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| languistic wrote: |
Summary? A guy got fired. He claim they had it in for him; that the firing was personal.
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Well, that there was a personal element involved I am adamant, although you can only take my word for that.
What the thread was meant to be about was what effect this would have on getting a future job, with a view to hearing from people who had experience of this. I wasn't looking for either sympathy or sermons. Although if I were reading about this happening to somebody else I would probably have been more sympathetic with the second camp, although I guess it's easy to act all "Well, in the real world" etc and hard-nosed until you're on the receiving end for a change. I get along with almost anybody (again, my word) but this woman has been a misery from day one. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| languistic wrote: |
Summary? A guy got fired. He claim they had it in for him; that the firing was personal.
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Well, that there was a personal element involved I am adamant, although you can only take my word for that.. |
Living in Korea down the years I have come to see the motives behind many things. Look for the political status factor...and you will invariably be correct.
Strip away the facade and life is basically a lot of egos bumping into eachother and jostling for position.
Last edited by Junior on Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Have any of you folks been evaluated as a teacher in the US? There ARE NO clear standards for evaluating teachers, anywhere, in any form...there are STANDARDIZED forms, which are simply rubrics that give numbers to arbitrary guidelines -- I can make you one of those right quick -- 100 points total, must receive 75 or higher to be re-signed:
10 points punctuality
30 points classroom management
20 points knowledge of subject matter
20 points student rapport/knowledge
20 points cultural sensitivity/workplace morale.
I could write up an explanation of why each of these things is important, and I could make a score sheet that totted up the deductions, and reasons for the deductions...and it would have numbers, which would make it fair and objective -- it would be quantifiable....
...and it would be just as much BS, or just as valid, as any other form of evaluation. Yes, you could include other things in it, adjust the weight of each of the categories, but really, you would just be putting numbers to "subjective" ideas...because ALL evaluation is subjective! Duh!
Why would you even need to be told how you would be evaluated -- are you really that blind?
Be on time. Start class on time. Have a demonstrable knowledge of the subject matter. Have 100% of the students aware, attentive, on-task, engaged, and active in the activity at all times (this is the unattainable ideal, of course, but it should always be the goal, and when you fall short, as everyone always does, you should strive to find ways to increase your percentages). Check for understanding. Evaluate your own performance. Alter your performance and approaches to maximize learning from the maximum number of students (or the target students, in cases where your school prefers you to teach to a certain minority of students). Make the workplace pleasant for others, or at least, keep from making the workplace unpleasant for others. Isn't this all common sense? Isn't all of this just basic, minimal stuff? |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
Have any of you folks been evaluated as a teacher in the US? There ARE NO clear standards for evaluating teachers, anywhere, in any form...there are STANDARDIZED forms, which are simply rubrics that give numbers to arbitrary guidelines -- I can make you one of those right quick -- 100 points total, must receive 75 or higher to be re-signed:
10 points punctuality
30 points classroom management
20 points knowledge of subject matter
20 points student rapport/knowledge
20 points cultural sensitivity/workplace morale.
I could write up an explanation of why each of these things is important, and I could make a score sheet that totted up the deductions, and reasons for the deductions...and it would have numbers, which would make it fair and objective -- it would be quantifiable....
...and it would be just as much BS, or just as valid, as any other form of evaluation. Yes, you could include other things in it, adjust the weight of each of the categories, but really, you would just be putting numbers to "subjective" ideas...because ALL evaluation is subjective! Duh!
Why would you even need to be told how you would be evaluated -- are you really that blind?
Be on time. Start class on time. Have a demonstrable knowledge of the subject matter. Have 100% of the students aware, attentive, on-task, engaged, and active in the activity at all times (this is the unattainable ideal, of course, but it should always be the goal, and when you fall short, as everyone always does, you should strive to find ways to increase your percentages). Check for understanding. Evaluate your own performance. Alter your performance and approaches to maximize learning from the maximum number of students (or the target students, in cases where your school prefers you to teach to a certain minority of students). Make the workplace pleasant for others, or at least, keep from making the workplace unpleasant for others. Isn't this all common sense? Isn't all of this just basic, minimal stuff? |
You say all evaluation is subjective which is true, but the point that has been hammered over here is that the subjectivity may or may not have extended beyond the criterion you mention. |
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PersoninKorea
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: |
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To the OP: The best you can do is to make friends with people at the Office of Education in your area and be friendly to your principal and communicate with him/her through other people.
This way, when a recruiter or potential employer phones the school they can talk to anyone about your conduct and there is a chance you'll get a good reference. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| thegadfly wrote: |
Have any of you folks been evaluated as a teacher in the US? There ARE NO clear standards for evaluating teachers, anywhere, in any form...there are STANDARDIZED forms, which are simply rubrics that give numbers to arbitrary guidelines -- I can make you one of those right quick -- 100 points total, must receive 75 or higher to be re-signed:
10 points punctuality
30 points classroom management
20 points knowledge of subject matter
20 points student rapport/knowledge
20 points cultural sensitivity/workplace morale.
I could write up an explanation of why each of these things is important, and I could make a score sheet that totted up the deductions, and reasons for the deductions...and it would have numbers, which would make it fair and objective -- it would be quantifiable....
...and it would be just as much BS, or just as valid, as any other form of evaluation. Yes, you could include other things in it, adjust the weight of each of the categories, but really, you would just be putting numbers to "subjective" ideas...because ALL evaluation is subjective! Duh!
Why would you even need to be told how you would be evaluated -- are you really that blind?
Be on time. Start class on time. Have a demonstrable knowledge of the subject matter. Have 100% of the students aware, attentive, on-task, engaged, and active in the activity at all times (this is the unattainable ideal, of course, but it should always be the goal, and when you fall short, as everyone always does, you should strive to find ways to increase your percentages). Check for understanding. Evaluate your own performance. Alter your performance and approaches to maximize learning from the maximum number of students (or the target students, in cases where your school prefers you to teach to a certain minority of students). Make the workplace pleasant for others, or at least, keep from making the workplace unpleasant for others. Isn't this all common sense? Isn't all of this just basic, minimal stuff? |
You say all evaluation is subjective which is true, but the point that has been hammered over here is that the subjectivity may or may not have extended beyond the criterion you mention. |
I think Gadfly has made it work for him and has found the secret to success in Korea. He probably is an excellent teacher and has won the confidence of the natives.
But I agree with you, there is definitely subjectivity that is extended beyond all explicit criteria. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Nixed With A Low Evaluation Score |
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| chellovek wrote: |
I've not really got on well with my handler at this PS and as expected I got torpedoed with a low evaluation score.
How difficult will this make it to get a new job at hagwon once I complete this contract?
I've memories of reading of such things happening to others before now, how did you fare? |
The short answer, not difficult. I wouldn't worry about it.
Most of this job (or any job really) is about interpersonal skills. It's like a chemical reaction when you put people together. It's not always you and it's not always them. Just the combination.
Example; The PS I work at now was the best school I'd worked at and under the last administration, I could have stayed here forever. Then, last fall, the principal and VP transfered. Under the new administration, it's a completely different scene. Now I'm not sure if I can stand finishing my contract, or if the school will resign me.
The simple soluton is to find employers that like you.
That said, though, if you stay in the field long enough, come to know what you bring to the table, it'll matter less and less whether the employers like you or not.
Anyway, it's the parents who run the school, not the administration. And the parents are connected with the students.
So learn from Gladiator: Win the crowd, and the emperor can't do jack.
Anyway, your life isn't over. |
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enchoo
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Location: Heading to a reality show near you
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:53 am Post subject: I am surprised how much you guys attack each other and not |
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I am surprised how much you guys attack each other personally and not solve the f---in guy's problem with the unfair evaluation. I think any subjective evaluations have the potential to be bias and manipulated. The question should be addressing how the guy who endured the unfair grading can appeal or overturn this grading or judgement. Or how to overcome this setback.
I personally received unfair grades in both the western world and the eastern world academic organizations while attending universities/graduate schools or teaching in private or public schools but I have decided to continue with my original long term plan and get A's in the courses wherever I can. Now I have came a long way and lived to tell about it. You can call me the Abe Lincoln of the educational world!
I concur with Isitts view that the more qualified and experienced you are, the less vulnerable you are to the whims of the hormonally imbalanced Western or Eastern wonjang/director/principal. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Nixed With A Low Evaluation Score |
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| isitts wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
I've not really got on well with my handler at this PS and as expected I got torpedoed with a low evaluation score.
How difficult will this make it to get a new job at hagwon once I complete this contract?
I've memories of reading of such things happening to others before now, how did you fare? |
The short answer, not difficult. I wouldn't worry about it.
Most of this job (or any job really) is about interpersonal skills. It's like a chemical reaction when you put people together. It's not always you and it's not always them. Just the combination.
Example; The PS I work at now was the best school I'd worked at and under the last administration, I could have stayed here forever. Then, last fall, the principal and VP transfered. Under the new administration, it's a completely different scene. Now I'm not sure if I can stand finishing my contract, or if the school will resign me.
The simple soluton is to find employers that like you.
That said, though, if you stay in the field long enough, come to know what you bring to the table, it'll matter less and less whether the employers like you or not.
Anyway, it's the parents who run the school, not the administration. And the parents are connected with the students.
So learn from Gladiator: Win the crowd, and the emperor can't do jack.
Anyway, your life isn't over. |
That's not true. Koreans are evil and even if the parents request that a teacher must stay, an administrator will sack a teacher just because.
Sincerely,
Earthquakez |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Nixed With A Low Evaluation Score |
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| methdxman wrote: |
That's not true. Koreans are evil and even if the parents request that a teacher must stay, an administrator will sack a teacher just because.
Sincerely,
Earthquakez |
Now you really are hitting your trolling stride. I feel embarrassed for you. 
You're the person who was hanging around here before asking lots of questions about Korea because you supposedly were going to come here. Now you say you work for a Korean company and at the same time go on about how tough life is working in Korea, even as you supposedly are getting paid to surf the net and make posts on forums that are irrelevant to you. 
I know Koreans who work for companies and believe me, they wouldn't have time to troll on these boards even if they wanted to (which they don't because a) They're normal people 2) They work. You don't fit either criteria.
Please tell all of us just what Korean company offers you so many opportunities to surf the net and hang around an ESL board for teachers. You were saying you work in the insurance industry and it's so competitive - it can't be if your boss smiles while you post endless diatribes, psuedo help and fantasies on the eslcafe.
I know it must hurt that so many of us here have accomplished much at home and have successfully worked in other Asian countries at jobs you couldn't get if you tried a thousand times.
And this thread is really bringing out the nastiness as well as the trollishness of a few posters. Languistic - I am publicly telling you so you get the message - do not contact me by pm. I have not sent one to you and if you send me another I will contact the mods. |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Nixed With A Low Evaluation Score |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| Languistic - I am publicly telling you so you get the message - do not contact me by pm. I have not sent one to you and if you send me another I will contact the mods. |
Ok. I will also tell you publicly - just so you get the message - not to make veiled threats.
As I said before, you are what you accuse others of; all you have been doing in this thread is bashing others. I realize you need to safety of public bickering to maintain yourself as being correct, but trust me, you look no better than those you accuse.
The PM function is for messages that need not be made public; off-topic or non-relevant ideas. Most of our late posts have been of this nature and it is best to have these discussions using that function. I'm sure the mods would appreciate us doing so; they have already done a good job of pruning this thread and I suspect they tire of needing to watch it so closely.
Last edited by languistic on Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| Your endorsement of trolling and your attacks on respected posters on the cafe have been noted by more people than you think. Facts do not cease to exist simply because your refuse to accept them. |
Hardly a threat and again, do not pm me.
It's clear I was referring to your attacks on oldfatfarang who is a respected contributor to the eslcafe and others you attack.
You have encouraged a certain non English, probably non Korean resident troll to keep spinning out the attacks on those who are supportive of English teachers who receive bad evaluations based on unprofessionalism, disorganisation and resentment.
This is my last reply to you and your pet troll. Find somebody else to attack. |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
...evaluations based on unprofessionalism, disorganisation and resentment.
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Prove this. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Nixed With A Low Evaluation Score |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
That's not true. Koreans are evil and even if the parents request that a teacher must stay, an administrator will sack a teacher just because.
Sincerely,
Earthquakez |
Now you really are hitting your trolling stride. I feel embarrassed for you.
You're the person who was hanging around here before asking lots of questions about Korea because you supposedly were going to come here. Now you say you work for a Korean company and at the same time go on about how tough life is working in Korea, even as you supposedly are getting paid to surf the net and make posts on forums that are irrelevant to you.
I know Koreans who work for companies and believe me, they wouldn't have time to troll on these boards even if they wanted to (which they don't because a) They're normal people 2) They work. You don't fit either criteria.
Please tell all of us just what Korean company offers you so many opportunities to surf the net and hang around an ESL board for teachers. You were saying you work in the insurance industry and it's so competitive - it can't be if your boss smiles while you post endless diatribes, psuedo help and fantasies on the eslcafe.
I know it must hurt that so many of us here have accomplished much at home and have successfully worked in other Asian countries at jobs you couldn't get if you tried a thousand times.
And this thread is really bringing out the nastiness as well as the trollishness of a few posters. Languistic - I am publicly telling you so you get the message - do not contact me by pm. I have not sent one to you and if you send me another I will contact the mods. |
lol are you serious? Do you really want to get int a �whose house is bigger� argument? What's your criteria for success? Ill gladly compare. This should be fun for everyone. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| thegadfly wrote: |
Have any of you folks been evaluated as a teacher in the US? There ARE NO clear standards for evaluating teachers, anywhere, in any form...there are STANDARDIZED forms, which are simply rubrics that give numbers to arbitrary guidelines -- I can make you one of those right quick -- 100 points total, must receive 75 or higher to be re-signed:
10 points punctuality
30 points classroom management
20 points knowledge of subject matter
20 points student rapport/knowledge
20 points cultural sensitivity/workplace morale.
I could write up an explanation of why each of these things is important, and I could make a score sheet that totted up the deductions, and reasons for the deductions...and it would have numbers, which would make it fair and objective -- it would be quantifiable....
...and it would be just as much BS, or just as valid, as any other form of evaluation. Yes, you could include other things in it, adjust the weight of each of the categories, but really, you would just be putting numbers to "subjective" ideas...because ALL evaluation is subjective! Duh!
Why would you even need to be told how you would be evaluated -- are you really that blind?
Be on time. Start class on time. Have a demonstrable knowledge of the subject matter. Have 100% of the students aware, attentive, on-task, engaged, and active in the activity at all times (this is the unattainable ideal, of course, but it should always be the goal, and when you fall short, as everyone always does, you should strive to find ways to increase your percentages). Check for understanding. Evaluate your own performance. Alter your performance and approaches to maximize learning from the maximum number of students (or the target students, in cases where your school prefers you to teach to a certain minority of students). Make the workplace pleasant for others, or at least, keep from making the workplace unpleasant for others. Isn't this all common sense? Isn't all of this just basic, minimal stuff? |
You say all evaluation is subjective which is true, but the point that has been hammered over here is that the subjectivity may or may not have extended beyond the criterion you mention. |
It always does -- it ALWAYS does! The only difference is that in the US, we are accustomed to having this subjectivity hidden, and when it is not, we threaten with lawsuits...here, they are a bit more open about it, and do not try to justify it.
You are late one time -- a single time -- should the evaluator dedeuct points from punctuality? I mean, sure, once means you are not perfect, and if you are not perfect, you should not get a perfect score, but once should be within the realm of acceptable behavior, right? I got in a car accident on the way to work in the US, was late as a result (15 minutes late, and still made it before my classes began). Yep, I lost points on my next evaluation...mostly because I had pissed off the principal with something else (I had opposed one of his pet projects). Is that really an objective assessment? As objective as anything else....
Yes, it sucks. Yes, it is not optimal. Yes, it happens, so plan for it. Ignoring it is like trying to solve a real-world physics problem, but failing to account for gravity -- I mean, it is ALWAYS there, and it is ALWAYS pulling you down, so you have GOT to factor it in! |
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