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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
It always does -- it ALWAYS does! The only difference is that in the US, we are accustomed to having this subjectivity hidden, and when it is not, we threaten with lawsuits...here, they are a bit more open about it, and do not try to justify it.
You are late one time -- a single time -- should the evaluator dedeuct points from punctuality? I mean, sure, once means you are not perfect, and if you are not perfect, you should not get a perfect score, but once should be within the realm of acceptable behavior, right? I got in a car accident on the way to work in the US, was late as a result (15 minutes late, and still made it before my classes began). Yep, I lost points on my next evaluation...mostly because I had pissed off the principal with something else (I had opposed one of his pet projects). Is that really an objective assessment? As objective as anything else....
Yes, it sucks. Yes, it is not optimal. Yes, it happens, so plan for it. Ignoring it is like trying to solve a real-world physics problem, but failing to account for gravity -- I mean, it is ALWAYS there, and it is ALWAYS pulling you down, so you have GOT to factor it in! |
Interesting. This unfairness would also extend to assessment of students; the paper test. Is testing a single event or is it a period over which growth is measured? Perhaps I am going off-topic here, but as students are often assessed - single-event tests with some variable level of subjectivity - so are teachers, by this proclamation.
I wonder how many people who feel slighted by the assessments assess their students.
Anyhow...much complaining, but what about options? Surely one of you must have an idea? It may be a waste (in that nothing will come of it) to discuss it here, but it would make for more interesting talk than the direction this thread has gone (no thanks to me, for one). |
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enchoo

Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Location: Heading to a reality show near you
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject: Hey lang^^ Can you summarize the problem and your goals ag |
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| Hey can you summarize your problems and tell your goals then I can find some sorts of solutions. I understand you were fired because of your poor evaluation from a jealous co-teacher (kind of the the little ant hill) and you want to overcome this obstacle in Korea. Tell us your other circumstances of your situation. Are you looking for a new position? What kind? |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Location: Korea
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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This thread was thrown to the dogs several pages ago.
I don't think more info from the OP is needed. His nixed review really doesn't matter...especially if he's moving from PS to hagwon.
If I can find this thread at the end of my contract this summer, I can let readers know what ended up happening at my school (with a new VP that would love to get rid of me, but will likely be unable to without it coming back on her because of the parents and students). |
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chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Hey lang^^ Can you summarize the problem and your goal |
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| enchoo wrote: |
| Hey can you summarize your problems and tell your goals then I can find some sorts of solutions. I understand you were fired because of your poor evaluation from a jealous co-teacher (kind of the the little ant hill) and you want to overcome this obstacle in Korea. Tell us your other circumstances of your situation. Are you looking for a new position? What kind? |
Hey man, I appreciate that you seem more geared up to the question at hand.
The crux of what happened- the boss said I was being re-signed and then at the last moment said "Oh wait, you got a low score, you cannot re-sign." I've been in Korea nigh on 3 years, my question and goal is- what effect this panning has on my ability to carry on here.
I've alluded to the fact that I am the only foreign teacher to have lasted a year here (I haven't actually been fired)....the point of this thread when I started it is- how does a bad evaluation score effect future employment?
Last edited by chellovek on Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: |
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A few years ago, I'd post regular rants about my awful co-teachers at a public school. I was lambasted, but there have been many other posters on this forum that have had the same experience.
OP - I think I may be able to help you get a GEPIK job, I can't guarantee it, but you could try. Please pm me with a contact email address and first name, I'll pass your details on if you want.
Working with a Korean co-teacher is a miserable experience. They are on a power trip and their poor English skills only makes you dislike them even more.
This is not unique to Korea. I've met a guy who taught English in Taiwan. He had a co-teacher there, she also used to insist her pronunciation of various English words were correct, while he, the native speaker was incorrect.
I'm in my second year in Saudi Arabia. I've no co-teacher and my recent observation was excellent.
Don't put yourself down, you probably got a poor evaluation because you were actually rather good. |
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Lastrova
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
Working with a Korean co-teacher is a miserable experience. They are on a power trip and their poor English skills only makes you dislike them even more.
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Of course, you know there are many, many exceptions to this rule. I've had 6 co-teachers in the past 2 years and not one has been a dud. Sure, I balled one of the lazier ones out in class for favoritism, but that was easy to take care of--because I was right and everyone knew it. The reality, I find, is more with how the principal and vice-principal feel about English. That message radiates. And at my school, they are both behind me 100%. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| tideout wrote: |
Really, most people came here to work not give up their Australian, US, Canadian etc. qualities.
The idea that it will meet the hype of an international destination but everyone must strive to act Korean probably doesn't have much gas to it. |
Seems to be the case with immigrants back in the west as well.
When I'm in UK I tend to hear the following opinions about foreigners espoused:
a) "Why don't they speak English?"
b) "If they want to live here they must do things the English way"
c) "They're just here to bleed the country dry".
d) General criticism of foreigners for their mistakes (even though english people behave twice as bad).
So there you have it...attitudes toward outsiders are consistent across the globe. |
TRUE! (in the US as well if not more so)
however... thinking this way, much less voicing such opinions aloud automatically classifies the speaker as a complete BOOB
(of which clearly, the UK and the US are full of) |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in the same corner. I'm from the UK, white (except for a bit of Caribbean blood on one side), grew up in one of the not so good places in London and as far as I'm concerned people who keep worrying about what somebody else is getting if they happen to be asylums seekers, immigrants etc need to start focusing on their own lives.
But I do get fed up hearing the Korean bigotry of the media, politicians, education boards, provincial offices, as well as some of the general public. Look at it this way - they can't handle non Koreans coming in to work and pay taxes, the attitudes of true bigots. Koreans aren't giving us welfare, they're not giving the foreigners of any kind they give work visas to money for nothing.
It's a common theme among some young Koreans - they can't handle anybody looking as if they're enjoying themselves in Korea and working yet Koreans will qualify for welfare if they come to the UK to live and don't work. Koreans have made great lives for themselves in the US and Canada, they can do their own thing, set up their own enclaves, make money, some of the older ones don't feel the need to learn English.
They have also set it up so most foreigner can't live/settle in Korean longer or long term yet they whine about or slag non Koreans as if we are immigrants, not those on short term visas. While Koreans immigrate to our countries, and can benefit and do plenty of things without learning the language etc. |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
I'm in the same corner. I'm from the UK, white (except for a bit of Caribbean blood on one side), grew up in one of the not so good places in London and as far as I'm concerned people who keep worrying about what somebody else is getting if they happen to be asylums seekers, immigrants etc need to start focusing on their own lives.
But I do get fed up hearing the Korean bigotry of the media, politicians, education boards, provincial offices, as well as some of the general public. Look at it this way - they can't handle non Koreans coming in to work and pay taxes, the attitudes of true bigots. Koreans aren't giving us welfare, they're not giving the foreigners of any kind they give work visas to money for nothing.
It's a common theme among some young Koreans - they can't handle anybody looking as if they're enjoying themselves in Korea and working yet Koreans will qualify for welfare if they come to the UK to live and don't work. Koreans have made great lives for themselves in the US and Canada, they can do their own thing, set up their own enclaves, make money, some of the older ones don't feel the need to learn English.
They have also set it up so most foreigner can't live/settle in Korean longer or long term yet they whine about or slag non Koreans as if we are immigrants, not those on short term visas. While Koreans immigrate to our countries, and can benefit and do plenty of things without learning the language etc. |
+1
If I sense koreans silently judging me for being in "their country" (I'm an expert at reading their minds now) I generally remind them that many Koreans live in the west and qualify for all kinds of benefits and jobs.
Its the 21st century. Nationalism is too old fashioned now. Anyone can live anywhere IMO. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| earthquakez wrote: |
I'm in the same corner. I'm from the UK, white (except for a bit of Caribbean blood on one side), grew up in one of the not so good places in London and as far as I'm concerned people who keep worrying about what somebody else is getting if they happen to be asylums seekers, immigrants etc need to start focusing on their own lives.
But I do get fed up hearing the Korean bigotry of the media, politicians, education boards, provincial offices, as well as some of the general public. Look at it this way - they can't handle non Koreans coming in to work and pay taxes, the attitudes of true bigots. Koreans aren't giving us welfare, they're not giving the foreigners of any kind they give work visas to money for nothing.
It's a common theme among some young Koreans - they can't handle anybody looking as if they're enjoying themselves in Korea and working yet Koreans will qualify for welfare if they come to the UK to live and don't work. Koreans have made great lives for themselves in the US and Canada, they can do their own thing, set up their own enclaves, make money, some of the older ones don't feel the need to learn English.
They have also set it up so most foreigner can't live/settle in Korean longer or long term yet they whine about or slag non Koreans as if we are immigrants, not those on short term visas. While Koreans immigrate to our countries, and can benefit and do plenty of things without learning the language etc. |
+1
If I sense koreans silently judging me for being in "their country" (I'm an expert at reading their minds now) I generally remind them that many Koreans live in the west and qualify for all kinds of benefits and jobs.
Its the 21st century. Nationalism is too old fashioned now. Anyone can live anywhere IMO. |
I don't think this is unique to Korea. I'm not saying it's not true what you're saying, but given the circumstances, you shouldn't expect Korean people to just be open-arms to all foreigners. It's not that time yet. It might be in the next 10 years, who knows. Every country has and will continue to be xenophobic up to a certain stage.
Regarding Koreans having all kinds of benefits and jobs. My parents and many people like them had to work very hard to provide us 1.5ers with a high quality of life, education, etc. They certainly did not have paid housing + great compensation (for a 22 year old) working 20-40 hours a week. That's for damn sure.
They had to deal with way more racism/hardship than any of the teachers here. It's easy to throw around a phrase that "Koreans have jobs and benefits" outside of Korea. But Korean Americans are where they are now because of the hard work of the generation before them. Trust me, it wasn't just given to them.
You guys have good jobs here that were given to you essentially because you a) were born in a country where English is the native language and b) you have an undergraduate degree. There is no comparison.
Finally, in a perfect world, everyone should live where they want to, but in reality, nobody wants that. That's why rich people live with rich people and poor people live with poor people. That's why in the U.S. white people live with white people, black people live with black people, Latinos live with Latinos, and Asians you sprinkle them all around. That's why so many borders now are so restricted. It's hard to get a work permit or residence permit in any OECD country except for maybe Australia, Canada and maybe the UK. Politically, you need to make it extremely difficult for foreigners to enter your country. No politician supports open borders. You won't get re-elected.
It took me 3 years to get a work permit in Spain. How long did it take you to get one for Korea? At least they let you make a decent living here. The E-2 Visa is probably the easiest work permit to get amongst the OECD countries. Why do you think there are so many English teachers here? High demand, first world country, good pay, few requirements. It's a luxury.
You cannot expect locals here to just be totally open to foreigners. Most of the foreigners they grew up knowing were drunk American soldiers. But there is a bright side. If the foreign community here ever reaches critical mass there will be an adjustment on the part of the Koreans and mindsets will change. It always does.
Nationalism will always exist. The vast majority anywhere tends to bind together in groups. It will take the hard work of people who really want to stay here and live here long-term to make inroads in this country just like many people have done in other countries.
But to be honest, most people here want to be here for a few years and bounce. That kind of attitude (not necessarily bad) is obvious to Koreans in many ways: don't wanna learn the language, don't wanna integrate, don't care about Korea. That's totally fine, but just don't expect the red carpet treatment. And the few who truly want to stay here longer just have a much harder task because of the priorities of the majority who are only here for a fling. |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| It will take the hard work of people who really want to stay here and live here long-term to make inroads in this country just like many people have done in other countries. |
Foreigners here are 99% transient migrant workers, and Korea likes to keep them that way.
A permanent community of foreign residents that "makes inroads" into this country in the long term hardly exists yet. It will probably never really do so.
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| And the few who truly want to stay here longer just have a much harder task because of the priorities of the majority who are only here for a fling. |
I enjoy Korea. I enjoy teaching, I enjoy my interests outside of work, I enjoy my Korean friends that I've known for years. I'm generally happy.
A lot of the more temporary waegooks just do not understand this. They think there has to be something wrong with you if you actually like it here. If you are not permanently angry and negative, then you are some sort of apologist. |
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enchoo

Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Location: Heading to a reality show near you
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: See my thread about how to get a good recommendation from... |
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Hey did you read how to get a good recommendation from another source and how to make all attempts to bypass the evil co-teacher. I will make a comparative situation of a guy getting fixated on a girl who is not interested in him. Dude you just try to find another girl who is comparatively equivalent by looking in other places where there are opportunities.
Networking in your present workplace is so vital and always seek ways to be there and help each other professionally and sometimes if there are personal problems. Also ask for recommendations to at least 2 people who occupy supervisor positions and can speak positively about you. They don't have to be a direct supervisor but someone with authority who can explain your role and duties for your organization. Even a senior teacher can perform this role.
It's so funny that I network with others during interviews at other universities and that I get inside track on other teachers who are interviewing. The places where I previously interviewed are where the other teacher candidates come from. |
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