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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Koreadays wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
As for for foreigners, anyone on an F-series can legally teach privates if they register for it. |
yes, but you are not allowed to charge what ever you want.
there are rules, regulations and maximum amount of students and money you are allowed to make.
for more information check with your local GU CHUNG |
You're right about the regulations with regards to fees being charged. This applies to hogwans too. But, I knew some people running a hogwan who got the parents to sign a letter of waiver and it allowed them to charge more. Not sure exactly how it applies. If you have a really good reputation, parents might be willing to do it. If they don't sign it, there may be "no openings". Ask yourself how many hogwans are expensive in gangnam. You'd have to check with your local education office as they are the ones who set the rates. Maybe even check with a lawyer and cover yourself. |
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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| OK, I've been scared straight. This seems like way too much work and risk for the potential return. Like I said before, I make consistently between five and six million. My wife makes between two and three million. This still seems to be a glass ceiling, but compared to the incomes of other Koreans and foreigners, I guess we're doing OK. I just want to save enough money to get the hell out of Korea and to a warm country before I am too old to enjoy it. Basically there are a LOT better places to live than here. |
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Chokse
Joined: 22 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I just want to add a few extra thoughts. Is it possible to make 10 million a month doing this? Yes. I pull in between 12-15 million per month, but it took several years of very hard work to build up a reputation that would bring in the number of students needed to make this amount of money per month. And more importantly, to KEEP these students. It also means working almost all of your waking hours. When the kids are on vacation from regular school, you have to come up with creative ideas for intensive classes in the mornings, to bring in new students and to make extra money. There is no rest in this job, and you can forget about taking any vacations.
But FDNY, if you are patient and give it 6 months to a year, you should be able to pull in a good number of students (assuming you have good curriculum) and with them, money. It WON'T happen the first month after opening shop, so get that idea out of your head. It will take a lot of work to reach your goal. If you don't want to invest that much time and effort (I probably work 60 hour a week), then stick with teaching privates as it will be much easier and much less will be expected of you. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Hello Riverboy. Thanks for the reply. The ONLY one of any consequence really. You live in Yonsu-dong? Then I probably know you. I have been in Incheon since 1996. Here are some questions:
1/ Do you have a ground floor apt.?
2/ Did you remodel it into a study room? How much?
3/ Did you live your catchment area a long time before you opened up?
I have a similar working life to most F-2 people. A well paying, low hours gig and then "extras" after/before that. But like I said, the glass ceiling is about 6M for me before I start feeling a bit frazzled. Also I worry about facing ageism soon. Something I don't have to worry about with my own study room.
So, was it worth it? What did your wife think? |
Wow since 1996! I figure you should be retired by now. I've been here since 2002 and am readying my exit for 2014. not sure if we've met.
Regarding your three questions:
1. No. We have lived cheonsae and both times in Songdo lived on the 10th and 12th floor. We'll be moving again in June. We have stuck in the same complex.
2. No remodelling just a few posters, a book rack, and extra monitor, a good (actually not that good) printer and a big table.
3. I made a transition from doing privates to the studyroom, I also had some help from my local Taekwondo gym and an art hogwon in getting students/
From my experience, it's doable, but if you have asteady income, with a full time job and a decent vacation, think about what you are giving up. If you have kids and like to spend time with them as I do, then think about that. Also, if you like to workout, then think about that.
It willl take a lot of time and energy, you will be home and won't have to travel which is what I love. You will not have to deal with mothers looking over your shoulder, but you will still have to deal with them. Another problem is filling uop the classes and keeping them. When teaching provates, the moms tend to find the group, know each other and stick together. With a study room if two moms get together, really like you and are a "team" so to speak, they will jealously guard you from other potential mom's.
I am assuming your wife will also quit her job as well; another guarenteed income down the drain. I think you can make the money, but it seems that between you and your wife you pretty much already are.
I can say that I have made more money than that -not much more- but now, I am making a fair bit less. I just had a bunch of students move to new apartments in Posco, and other more affluent areas of Songdo thus breaking up some great classes. It had nothing to do with 'me' as a teacher. I've also had a few moms badmouth me because I am a bit of a straight shooter and told them their kids were rude, disruptive and boderline retarded (well not retarded). I'm sure it will pick up soon, but Songod is a tight, tight market. I would recommend checking into Lotte Castle in Guwol Dong. Huge, full and only one foreigner from what I can tell. Songdo has about thirty/
In the end, it's a big decision and I wish you the best. That is unless you move to Poonlim iwan 1 block. The I'll have to hunt you down like a dog. 
If you have any other questions shoot me a pm with your cell number and I'll give you a ring. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Koreadays wrote: |
Like any business it can seem easy in theory.
Ohh look Buddy over there owns a bar, he is packed every weekend, he charges 10 dollars on the door on weekends, he has a Dj, a couple bartenders, EASY MONEY. Ok I am going to open a bar too and cash in on this easy money. (really)????
oh look that cafe has lines of people wanting for coffee, I am going to open a coffee shop and become rich too.. because that guy is killing it..
It's not that easy...
Like anything in Life.. the most important thing is LUCK.
timing, location, hard work and a better product.
To open a study room is not just get 50 students and away you go.
Korean mothers do not just throw money away. As it may seems.
I know you wonder how that dude you met the other day in that bar who says he gets 50 an hour and has like 4 or 5 classes..
you wonder jesus, that guy gets 50 an hour?? Oh man I should charge 100
It's not that the mothers are stupid, they just don't know better, and he is lucky because he is probably in an area where mothers can't be choosers
so he is lucky. But his days are numbered if he doesn't bring results.
the average cycle for privates on average are 6 months.
Korea mothers act like Portfolio managers and agents for their kids.
they scrutinize everything and they will scrutinize your operation.
So I take it you are fluent in Korean to deal with the bombardment of calls and complaints from the mothers ,the unlimited requests, and nagging right?
Or You will have just some cutie answering the phone for you?
doing all the reports for you, grading all the books, testing, evaluating the students and correcting the students grammar in korean?
yes, becuause now you have a study room you don't just WORK 60minutes there is a lot of admin work to do now.
this little cutie will be highly trained and professional no doubt
because if you plan to compete with the Big Franchises around you. you have to really bring your A GAME!
otherwise what are you?
just some foreigner running classes out of his house.
why should 50 mothers invest in their children's future with you?
who are you?
you think getting 50 students is a piece of cake?
you think hanging onto 20 students for 6 months is easy in a study room?
sounds easy in theory.
might be an easier option as a private lesson teacher where you visit the houses because now the mothers don't expect anything from you but a 1 hour lesson. they don't expect admin work etc, just sincere effort for 60mins.
but with the study room you are now taking group classes and acting like a Hakwon.. so you had better offer the services which the BIG brands are offering. and THEN SOME.
look into it more, and think about it seriously.. you are thinking about opening a business.
running a business is not just about opening the doors and waiting for the money to roll in.
It's competitive.
never judge someone else's success as an indicator as an easy score.
first understand the Ajuma psyche. They really are a unique breed.
and running a study room is not as easy as you may think.
of course. if you are extremely lucky throw everything I said out the window and count the greenbacks.
goodluck |
This is a sound reply because it realistically spells out what running a business, any business, is about.
It is 100% true that people exagerate their earnings and that some people see this and think its "easy money".
The thing is, money is never "easy". Funny how that works.
I never ran a study room but I know several foreigners and Koreans who do. Those who are successful over the mid to long term work damn hard and do so well beyond teaching.
They have to market their place, advertise, deal with mothers, finances, students, admin, purchases find teaching material...You will need to be basically proficient in Korean or have someone who is that works with or for you.
If you hire someone, thats more admin and anyone who has ever run anything in his or her life will tell you the toughest thing in running your own business is finding good employees and managing them.
What was said about finding and retaining students is DEAD ON. This is a competitive business and these days the Korean Economy is not exactly on fire, that means parents are even pickier with where they spend their money for education. Add to this that the English proficiency criteria for entrance exams at good high schools and universities is changing this year and that means that as a study room, if you want to thrive, you need to be current with these changes. If you do not know about them, your place is heading for the rocks and a fast sinking. A study room, just like a hakwon can bleed students and die pretty fast if it does not stay current and competitive.
It is a worthy project and can earn you a good living but one thing it will not be is easy. |
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movybuf
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Location: Mokdong
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| This is an invaluable thread. Thank you to all the posters who put sincere effort into writing about their experiences. I too was thinking of building private lessons eventually into some kind of study room in my neighborhood. Now I'm not sure if I should make the leap to a full-blown study room as I have a kid and would hate to be working so much that I never get to spend time with him. |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| How does a foreigner afford a place in Songdo???? Isn't that freakin expensive? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| How does a foreigner afford a place in Songdo???? Isn't that freakin expensive? |
Some people have savings, live on two incomes for a few years, have investments...the list goes on.
Say a person worked in Korea for 8 years and each year saved 20 000$ (quite possible if you work hard). They now have 160 000$ without calculating any possible interest on investment for that sum. That is money you can do something with.
Someone living in Korea with employer provided accomodation and on a F-series visa can save more than 20Gs a year. Add to that their spouses income and that number can go up. |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Slowmotion wrote: |
| How does a foreigner afford a place in Songdo???? Isn't that freakin expensive? |
Some people have savings, live on two incomes for a few years, have investments...the list goes on.
Say a person worked in Korea for 8 years and each year saved 20 000$ (quite possible if you work hard). They now have 160 000$ without calculating any possible interest on investment for that sum. That is money you can do something with.
Someone living in Korea with employer provided accomodation and on a F-series visa can save more than 20Gs a year. Add to that their spouses income and that number can go up. |
Pretty hard to save $20,000 a year for the average person. Not to mention $160,000 is very little money for a place like Songdo |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Slowmotion wrote: |
| How does a foreigner afford a place in Songdo???? Isn't that freakin expensive? |
Some people have savings, live on two incomes for a few years, have investments...the list goes on.
Say a person worked in Korea for 8 years and each year saved 20 000$ (quite possible if you work hard). They now have 160 000$ without calculating any possible interest on investment for that sum. That is money you can do something with.
Someone living in Korea with employer provided accomodation and on a F-series visa can save more than 20Gs a year. Add to that their spouses income and that number can go up. |
Pretty hard to save $20,000 a year for the average person. Not to mention $160,000 is very little money for a place like Songdo |
20k a year isn't crazy if you're on an F-series working multiple part time jobs. a couple corporate classes and a hagwon should get you 5 million a month. don't waste your money and you can save 20k a year. That's only like 1750/month. Leaving you plenty. Especially if there is a second income.
Most e-series aren't in a position to open one of these. They don't have the necessary cash outside korea to bring in for a D-8 investors visa.
So for the average person who has the right visa to open it, it's not a crazy amount. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Slowmotion wrote: |
| How does a foreigner afford a place in Songdo???? Isn't that freakin expensive? |
Some people have savings, live on two incomes for a few years, have investments...the list goes on.
Say a person worked in Korea for 8 years and each year saved 20 000$ (quite possible if you work hard). They now have 160 000$ without calculating any possible interest on investment for that sum. That is money you can do something with.
Someone living in Korea with employer provided accomodation and on a F-series visa can save more than 20Gs a year. Add to that their spouses income and that number can go up. |
Pretty hard to save $20,000 a year for the average person. Not to mention $160,000 is very little money for a place like Songdo |
Not that hard at all if you know what you are doing. But for your average newbee fresh grad teacher it can be hard, I will grant you that. The E-2 visa does limit a person and that would also impact the savings potential. However, the biggest factor that plays on savings is lifestyle or if you will the budget you live on.
To save, you need to plan ahead and stick to that plan. So of course, if you are the type to live from month to month not watching money, then 20Gs is well out of range.
Someone who budgets, makes choices and plans can reach 20Gs per year. Whats worth more to a person decides it: that weekend sloshed at the bar or saving so that in a few years more options are open to you?
That was just one example...
160000 is the raw amount, someone who invests his savings every year will have far more than that, heck you can probably double that total amount. |
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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
20k a year isn't crazy if you're on an F-series working multiple part time jobs. a couple corporate classes and a hagwon should get you 5 million a month. don't waste your money and you can save 20k a year. That's only like 1750/month. Leaving you plenty. Especially if there is a second income.
Most e-series aren't in a position to open one of these. They don't have the necessary cash outside korea to bring in for a D-8 investors visa.
So for the average person who has the right visa to open it, it's not a crazy amount. |
Funny you say "only" 1,750. Only??
I don't really see how I'm gonna make around 5k a month unless I tutor like crazy. I mean think about it:
50 an hour * 1.5 hours a day * 5 days a week * 4 weeks = 1,500
So my public school salary is 2.1, but after taxes more like 1.9 + 400 housing = 2300ish + 1,500 = 3800
Yes i'm on a F series visa, and I don't see how this is possible for someone who:
-Has a social life (drinking, dates, clubs)
-Tries to dress decently (clothes, shoes etc)
-Buys things he needs (upgrading computer, buying a camera, a new bed, a tv etc)
I'd rather live my life to the fullest spending money and living happily. Some of you guys saving all your money and not going out, you realize these years of your life you're never getting back? I just don't see how you guys make this seem so simple.
And again, 160,000 isn't anything for Songdo. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
20k a year isn't crazy if you're on an F-series working multiple part time jobs. a couple corporate classes and a hagwon should get you 5 million a month. don't waste your money and you can save 20k a year. That's only like 1750/month. Leaving you plenty. Especially if there is a second income.
Most e-series aren't in a position to open one of these. They don't have the necessary cash outside korea to bring in for a D-8 investors visa.
So for the average person who has the right visa to open it, it's not a crazy amount. |
Funny you say "only" 1,750. Only??
I don't really see how I'm gonna make around 5k a month unless I tutor like crazy. I mean think about it:
50 an hour * 1.5 hours a day * 5 days a week * 4 weeks = 1,500
So my public school salary is 2.1, but after taxes more like 1.9 + 400 housing = 2300ish + 1,500 = 3800
Yes i'm on a F series visa, and I don't see how this is possible for someone who:
-Has a social life (drinking, dates, clubs)
-Tries to dress decently (clothes, shoes etc)
-Buys things he needs (upgrading computer, buying a camera, a new bed, a tv etc)
I'd rather live my life to the fullest spending money and living happily. Some of you guys saving all your money and not going out, you realize these years of your life you're never getting back? I just don't see how you guys make this seem so simple.
And again, 160,000 isn't anything for Songdo. |
Couple of points:
(1) You should probably find a job that allows you to use your time more effectively. With your 2.5 for 40 hours a week you're making about W16k an hour. Just business classes plus a kindergarten will allow you to make way more than you do now with a similar amount of free time.
I do uni for 15 hours a week (6 hours is overtime) for about 3.3m, and then 8 hours business classes a week at 50k for another 1.6m. That's 4.9m before taxes for 28 hours a week. Like you, I also like to spend time with my family and having fun so I don't do much extra work. If I worked as hard as some people I know I'd probably make 6.5-7.5m
(2) "Having fun" doesn't HAVE to be expensive. Hiking is free, a gym is less than 100k a month usually, tourist attractions and museums etc. are very cheap. The only expensive 'fun' I have is drinking. And that does indeed get expensive if it's too often haha. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
20k a year isn't crazy if you're on an F-series working multiple part time jobs. a couple corporate classes and a hagwon should get you 5 million a month. don't waste your money and you can save 20k a year. That's only like 1750/month. Leaving you plenty. Especially if there is a second income.
Most e-series aren't in a position to open one of these. They don't have the necessary cash outside korea to bring in for a D-8 investors visa.
So for the average person who has the right visa to open it, it's not a crazy amount. |
Funny you say "only" 1,750. Only??
I don't really see how I'm gonna make around 5k a month unless I tutor like crazy. I mean think about it:
50 an hour * 1.5 hours a day * 5 days a week * 4 weeks = 1,500
So my public school salary is 2.1, but after taxes more like 1.9 + 400 housing = 2300ish + 1,500 = 3800
Yes i'm on a F series visa, and I don't see how this is possible for someone who:
-Has a social life (drinking, dates, clubs)
-Tries to dress decently (clothes, shoes etc)
-Buys things he needs (upgrading computer, buying a camera, a new bed, a tv etc)
I'd rather live my life to the fullest spending money and living happily. Some of you guys saving all your money and not going out, you realize these years of your life you're never getting back? I just don't see how you guys make this seem so simple.
And again, 160,000 isn't anything for Songdo. |
That's why I said hagwon and not public school. Technically as a public school teacher you're not even supposed to be tutoring.
I know many F-series who have a couple of corporate classes in the morning.
2 hours at 50 or 60k if they can wrangle it. works out to 2 million or 2.2
then a hagwon in the afternoon to late evening which can wrangle them around 3. If they don't quite get 3, they have time to add privates to that as well, or a kindergarten class or two. |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
en supposed to be tutoring.
I know many F-series who have a couple of corporate classes in the morning.
2 hours at 50 or 60k if they can wrangle it. works out to 2 million or 2.2
then a hagwon in the afternoon to late evening which can wrangle them around 3. If they don't quite get 3, they have time to add privates to that as well, or a kindergarten class or two. |
this person doesn't want to work all the time. he is not chasing money he is more into lifestyle.
so then the guy will not be able to make over 5 million only working 30hours a week. you want to make 5 million a month.. you have to work for it.
on average 10 hours a day. some people don't want to leave the house at 7am and come home around 9pm..
anyway, it's not about how much money you make.. it's about how much you save... remember that..
I know guys who make 5 million a month, they work for it and spend almost all of it..
I know a guy who makes 4 million a month and saves 3 million a month.
if you make 3 million you can save 1.5 million and still have fun..
just need to budget. |
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