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How does your home country stack up to South Korea?
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bcjinseoul

Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:09 am Post subject:

interestedinhanguk wrote:

bcjinseoul wrote:

crossmr wrote:

bcjinseoul wrote:

"....they've probably got mortgages and car payments every month, which is debt. "

--So? If you can manage it, pay it off, and have a great paying career in your own country, who cares?

So, your claim was they were debt free. They're not debt free. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.

***THEY DON'T HAVE STUDENT LOANS AND CREDIT CARD DEBT ANYMORE. Seriously, do you plan on buying a house with 100% cash down one day? Again, if you're making $50,000 a year and your house is less than $100,000 I don't see what the problem is, same thing with buying a late model Honda for under $10,000. It's good have money in the market and in a house while building credit and equity, rather than just becoming addicted to saving tens of thousands of dollars cash in a savings account while NOT building equity and credit in a foreign country...or job skills. You're also not paying into social security over there.***

Quote:

"if they're only saving a few hundred a month they didn't plonk down 30k for a new car, and they didn't drop 300k+ for a new house. The only way they own the house already is if they're living in a fixer upper outside the city and commute a ways to work"

--Or, they're in my hometown of Syracuse, NY where most houses cost less than $100K and drive a late model 4 door sedan. I didn't say they were rich, and their family doesn't have to miss them for years and years.

We've now gone from "new" to "late model"
It's interesting how everyone has to try and fudge things to prove how good people they know back home are doing.
Even at $100k, they didn't pay cash saving only a few hundred a month and they're carrying debt on it.

***So? That's the way it's done in the West. We don't have to live with our parents till we're 30 and married. As your career progresses, so does your money. Is living in an apartment so awesome? Nothing beats a driveway, garage, car and house of your own with a meaningful and great paying job in your own country. Who the hell doesn't want that? Oh, and it's a lot easier to start a business or buy up real estate back home than in any foreign country....***

Plenty of things beat those. I have no desire for my own car (they're just a liability and are terrible for the environment). I don't mind an apartment; it's super convenient. I don't need anything bigger than my studio. After that it's just wasteful. Not all of us have this desire for material possession. Not all of us feel the need to be wasteful.

"Wasteful". Nice.

Let me guess....22? Maybe 25, tops? Environmental Science major, perhaps? Lots of student loans to pay off? We'll see how you feel when you're 32 and want a place of your own when you're married one day and want to have kids, and you don't have the degree/skill/experience for a great paying job in the homeland, even when the economy recovers.

To every long termer: TELL ME....how does your family cope? I know my family hated it when I was on the other side of the world....not seeing me during the holidays year after year, not being able to see me whenever they wanted it. Hell, I'm an athiest and I still enjoy Thanksgiving and Christmas in my own country. In Korea, it's just damn depressing.

You all have much better and easier jobs and lives than Koreans in their own country. You can be thankful for that.

asylum seeker

Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:23 am Post subject:

interestedinhanguk wrote:

I agree about the car thing and the convenience of apartments and I abhor McMansions, but having a modest yard with a garden is not necessarily wasteful. You can grow your own vegetables and trees that contribute oxygen to the atmosphere not to mention how working and spending out in the yard can help foster a sense of wellbeing etc. Having a garden can be hard work but can also be quite rewarding.

interestedinhanguk

Joined: 23 Aug 2010

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:37 am Post subject:

So it's not wasteful? So it's ok to suck resources? You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that people can be very content with relatively little (we all still live way more comfortably than most people on this planet, granted).

crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:48 am Post subject:

Quote:

***THEY DON'T HAVE STUDENT LOANS AND CREDIT CARD DEBT ANYMORE. Seriously, do you plan on buying a house with 100% cash down one day? Again, if you're making $50,000 a year and your house is less than $100,000 I don't see what the problem is, same thing with buying a late model Honda for under $10,000. It's good have money in the market and in a house while building credit and equity, rather than just becoming addicted to saving tens of thousands of dollars cash in a savings account while NOT building equity and credit in a foreign country...or job skills. You're also not paying into social security over there.***

So they don't have one kind of debt, but they have another kind of debt. You've now changed your story from "new" car to "late model" car. You lied, get over it.

When you've got a tale to tell that doesn't involve misdirection and outright lies, feel free to give it another crack.

bcjinseoul

Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:06 am Post subject:

crossmr wrote:

Quote:

You have quite the obession with debt, as if being debt free is a good thing. Owning a house or business is a good debt to have...especially if you own a lot of houses/businesses. Then you're making the big bucks. Student loans and credit card debt suck, especially if you're fresh out of college and can't get a good paying job in your own country. Notice how most English teachers in Korea are under 30....

You're sidestepping everything I'm saying, and just talking about debt like a bank teller from the 1950s who has never owned business, house, or taken out a business loan.

I find it interesting how (almost) everyone long term in Korea is in it "for the money," and yet don't want to move back home and start some businesses and buy up some real estate. They get stuck in this 19th century mentality of working all the time and saving money, as if they're going to have $10 million dollars within ten years.

bcjinseoul

Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:14 am Post subject:

interestedinhanguk wrote:

So it's not wasteful? So it's ok to suck resources? You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that people can be very content with relatively little (we all still live way more comfortably than most people on this planet, granted).

No, but are you saying you'd rather live your life worlds away from your family for years and years in small apartment teaching English in Korea? What did you go to college for, and what do you want to be? What do you REALLY want to be, if you could be ANYTHING? I'm guessing I was right about your age and experience and even financial situation? No disrespect, I recycle, take short showers, and all that jazz, but I find it funny how environmental types can say what they say and still live in the 21st century...I mean, why not live on a farm or in a cave, sew your own clothes, hunt your own food, build your own fire, bathe in a lake, build your own house, cut down some trees, sharpen some blades, milk some cows, use plants for medicine, make splints out of branches, rip out rotten teeth with your fingers, grow your own vegetables, work 15 hours a day...see how fun (and short) life was before the industrial revolution.

some waygug-in

Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:15 am Post subject:

Some of us spend our money foolishly others save for rainy days still others find sound investments..... like booze and women.

interestedinhanguk

Joined: 23 Aug 2010

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:28 am Post subject:

bcjinseoul wrote:

interestedinhanguk wrote:

You were right about my age. Not my financial situation. Not my college degree. But plenty of people do things other than a field directly related to their college degree, and some earn quite a bit of money.

If I wanted to live near my family, I couldn't get that 100,000 dollar house you mentioned. Lots of people in my area are probably in debt up to their eyeballs. But really, I don't have a desire to live in some American suburban sprawl, driving everywhere and all that jazz.

I'm hardly a hippy. But I try to be reasonable. I have no shame in taking transportation, despite how low-class you might think it is.

If I could be anything right now, it'd be working with kids, just like I am now. I'm a big boy now and don't need to be side-by-side with my folks. I keep in good contact with them. sure, holidays aren't fun, but oh well. I have a lovely girlfriend here who may be something more in the not way-too-distant future.

Maybe you have a hard time visualizing being content here, but trust me, plenty of us are.

bcjinseoul

Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:19 am Post subject:

interestedinhanguk wrote:

bcjinseoul wrote:

interestedinhanguk wrote:

Umm, actually I'm not in Korea at the moment. Thing is, I'm 29, turn 30 next month and did 4 years on-and-off-and-on-and-off in Korisneyland. I had no shame in getting on the subway, but often missed the feeling of being behind a wheel. I Traveled in between contracts. Lived the life in Seoul and Busan. Had fun, drank, partied, hooked up with some hotties, saved money, wrote a lot, learned a lot of Korean...and lot about myself. The people I know on facebook who have the right education have great paying careers in Boston, NYC, DC and Los Angeles. They're living like they're guest starring on 'Entourage;' especially the ones in LA.

I'm guessing this is your first, maybe 2nd and final year in Korea, and you have some sort of liberal arts degree, and not a degree in say, electrical engineering or computer science, and are gearing up to go to some kind of further schooling when the economy gets better, right? I don't feel the need to be by my folks, but it felt great to have the first Christmas with my mom in 8 years last month. I owed it to her; that's really how I felt.

Truth be told I feel for you, and when I came to Korea in 2006, it was because I never had a job I liked or that paid well...it was a dead last resort, and I couldn't get a job in Japan. I also looked into KBR Haliburton in the middle east as well. I still remember flying and commuting 24 hrs nonstop from Syracuse to Gwangju. Quite a journey when its your first time. Korea's great, but when the honeymoon phase is over after a year or two, you will be bored. I'd KILL for a good job in my own country right now....something I both like and that pays a lot of money. Needless to say...I'll probably be back in Korea soon....since I applied to ten billion jobs, couldn't get anything, and couldn't get into a good school I applied to, either. Got a crappy temp job that pays a joke at the minute, and it's depressing. Really, it is. I don't like struggling in my own country, but am not too excited to leave it again, this time.

Hope things work out for you and the K-girl...seems like most of the time when I guy marries a Korean girl and takes her back to his homeland, she goes back to Korea after a few years. At least you can use that teaching experience back home one day, since you like working with kids. Not that I don't, but if I could do school all over again and be ANYTHING, it wouldn't be a teacher. I would probably be working for NASA, MIT, a pharmacuetical company, or even the human genome project. Too bad no one is ever going to give me the big red shiny do-over button. Boo-hoo...

interestedinhanguk

Joined: 23 Aug 2010

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:38 am Post subject:

bcjinseoul wrote:

I'm guessing this is your first, maybe 2nd and final year in Korea, and you have some sort of liberal arts degree, and not a degree in say, electrical engineering or computer science, and are gearing up to go to some kind of further schooling when the economy gets better, right? I don't feel the need to be by my folks, but it felt great to have the first Christmas with my mom in 8 years last month. I owed it to her; that's really how I felt.

Truth be told I feel for you, and when I came to Korea in 2006, it was because I never had a job I liked or that paid well...it was a dead last resort, and I couldn't get a job in Japan. I also looked into KBR Haliburton in the middle east as well. I still remember flying and commuting 24 hrs nonstop from Syracuse to Gwangju. Quite a journey when its your first time. Korea's great, but when the honeymoon phase is over after a year or two, you will be bored. I'd KILL for a good job in my own country right now....something I both like and that pays a lot of money. Needless to say...I'll probably be back in Korea soon....since I applied to ten billion jobs, couldn't get anything, and couldn't get into a good school I applied to, either. Got a crappy temp job that pays a joke at the minute, and it's depressing. Really, it is. I don't like struggling in my own country, but am not too excited to leave it again, this time.

Wrong again, finishing second year and staying longer. I won't say what my degree is in because I like to stay relatively anonymous, and stating it would give me away to anyone who might know me. I will say it's business related, but for a specific industry and quite applicable in finding a decent-paying job. I have other education relevant to that field, as well. Frankly, the reason I chose it was because it was the closest Bachelors degree to what was (and in many ways, still is) my passion. I only discovered working with children after coming here. My initial move here was for the adventure, frankly. But, it has become more than that.

I had a few options when choosing to teach ESL, like we all did. I don't have the obsession with Japan that a fair amount of others do (let's not go into that here, there's other threads recently for that).

I'm happy, comfortable, content and don't miss driving. There's things I miss about the US (namely, a variety of cultures and what they bring with it), but I'm just fine here. I don't see myself leaving in the near future.

some waygug-in

Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:41 am Post subject:

yep, Canada's great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-x5QOSqP3E

AmericanBornKorean

Joined: 08 Oct 2010

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:34 am Post subject:

Koreadays wrote:

crossmr wrote:

You made up ridiculous numbers with ridiculous situations and now we have people showing up with uncounted income from before

yeah I am making it up, no one back home is rich, no one back home lives in those mansions, lives in those nice apartments, houses etc. owns boats , drives BMW"S have a second home in the mountains, no one back home makes 100K a year.. all those people who own land, buildings, work as executives, small business owners are all imaginary people.. they don't exist!

people I know save 50.000 dollars a year and bring in 100K +
they own homes, they rent out homes, they invest, they earn good money, have a pension, have a career, good credit..
sure they are not saving 50K every year. because they invest the money into more houses or small businesses with grants, loans, and partners.

they do more than what most do here.

you don't want to believe people save 50K a year back home. so be it..
I don't need to make this stuff up...

look I am sorry if your family and friends are low income earners and you can't comprehend others actually making money..I guess my friends and family are the ones hiring your friends and family to work for them.

ohh and regards to the IRS.. yes, they did come down hard on that guy.
so what's your point about that?
you don't believe me? try reading the local papers and watching the news.

I must be doing something wrong. I make about 100k, own a condo, own a car, and I can't save more than 5k a year.

cyui

Joined: 10 Jan 2011

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:53 am Post subject:

This thread has gone to far. Whatever just wherever -different things' for different people at different times.Find your nitch and deal with it. You can be a super boring person with no money or no property ownership ANYWHERE you go or you can upgrade your skills', make more money and then own your houses and cars' and have your fun. But, it really doesn't matter. Very few people stay in Korea for years;, but the ones that do find that long-term expat circle and cling onto that life-line, as there is really no choice where that area is concerned. It is simply to hard to try and do it alone. 2 years' ago,I remember people comming in and praying for our life, but not even fully understanding the real implications' behind it at the time. But, it is certaintly understood now.

danpaesan

Joined: 02 Feb 2010

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:31 am Post subject:

how many ESLers own their own home here and can even secure a mortgage?[/quote] I do. The final payment to KB will happen next week.

crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject:

Quote:

You have quite the obession with debt, as if being debt free is a good thing.

You brought it up as a claim to their great position in life, it was a lie.

What I have a problem with is the number of people here who need to outright lie to try and build up someone's position in life.

Quote:

You're sidestepping everything I'm saying, and just talking about debt like a bank teller from the 1950s who has never owned business, house, or taken out a business loan.

yes, because you've already proven that you'll lie to make a point, why should anyone give a toss about the rest of it?

You think you've got all kinds of insight into the majority of people here, but you don't. Even though a fair number of people come here, there are over 20,000 people here on E-2s alone, not counting E-1s, and F-4s teaching English. You don't remotely have a clue what makes the majority of people tick, what their plans are, or what they're doing.

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