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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| Well, when you also appeared to bring up American cartoons depicting Asians stereotypically as no big deal, it did look like you were generalizing. |
I never said in any way that Americans depicting Asians stereotypically was no big deal. I mearly said we do it a lot.
However, yes, I don't think it's a big deal!!
EDIT: (This next part not directed towards you, just the thread in general)
In fact, I would go so far as to encourage it. What a boring, boring world we would live in if all the artists in the world drew everyone the same. Yea, let's just forget drawing people at all!! We can just put numbers in the middle of the cartoon to represent people and we can put a caption at the bottom saying"#1 is a black man, #2 is a white man, and #3 is a...." What a dull, boring, PC of a world it would be!!!! 
Have you ever seen the works of Picasso from his "black period" in 1906-1907. He drew most of them with wide noses. Go on. Tell us how we should boycott his works because he stereotypically depicted blacks.
Gerard Sekoto is a famous black artist from South Africa that started the Urban Art movement in the early 1900's. Despite being black, he must be racist against his own people because he drew them with wide noses and big lips.
Cartoons are a form of art, political or not.
| DIsbell wrote: |
And Koreans don't want big noses like the ones depicted in cartoons of Americans/white foreigners; they want a bridge that isn't flat. I think, in Korea especially, it's a huge mistake to assume that all ideas of and pursuits for beauty are based on wanting to look white. Also, Korean slang/slurs for white people involves "big nose" or just "nose."
But yeah, I guess if there was a cartoon depicting a black person with ridiculously large lips, there's nothing that would make that cartoon racist. In fact, many white girls get collagen injections! |
Point well made. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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You're comparing Chosun's trash cartoons to Picasso and Sekoto? Jeeze, where to start....
-Picasso's black period is described as such because of his style drawing heavily from African indigenous art, notably sculptures and woodcarvings (some of the same material that inspired German avante-gardes as well). It's not because he painted black people with big noses in an obvious attempt to mock them. His most famous painting of this period is a bunch of (white) French hookers, with one or two of them having their heads replaced by that of his inspiration: Iberian sculptures.
-Sekoto's work was largely a brand of realism. His treatment of black subjects was not mocking or hateful, nor absurd.
No one is saying that every person must be artistically depicted in the same way, just that stuff such as the cartoon(s) in question as well as more blatant examples like these:
http://bonbonhistory.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/seuss021.jpg
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Jesse12345/Blacksrelax.jpg
have no purpose other than to demean a group of people based on stereotypical physical traits. And certainly shouldn't be compared to Picasso or Sekoto. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
You're comparing Chosun's trash cartoons to Picasso and Sekoto? Jeeze, where to start....
-Picasso's black period is described as such because of his style drawing heavily from African indigenous art, notably sculptures and woodcarvings (some of the same material that inspired German avante-gardes as well). It's not because he painted black people with big noses in an obvious attempt to mock them. His most famous painting of this period is a bunch of (white) French hookers, with one or two of them having their heads replaced by that of his inspiration: Iberian sculptures.
-Sekoto's work was largely a brand of realism. His treatment of black subjects was not mocking or hateful, nor absurd.
No one is saying that every person must be artistically depicted in the same way, just that stuff such as the cartoon(s) in question as well as more blatant examples like these:
http://bonbonhistory.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/seuss021.jpg
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Jesse12345/Blacksrelax.jpg
have no purpose other than to demean a group of people based on stereotypical physical traits. And certainly shouldn't be compared to Picasso or Sekoto. |
First of all, there is a big difference between what was posted in the Chosun and the 2 examples you provided. In regards to the Chosun cartoon, once again, yourself and others are assuming it's racism, when it reality it's probably no more than a caricature. Your examples are blatant racism.
And before you say it, yes there is also a big difference between the cartoonist in question and master artists. However the issue being discussed at the time was people's drawing of others with stereotypical features, not racism. |
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JFP2020
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, I'm not offended by this. But then I'm not a very politically correct person.
BUT there is no doubt that doing something similar with Asian or black people in Europe or the USA would get you into a lot of trouble.
I'd kind of prefer if people were more relaxed about these things, however, rather than Korea becoming hyper-sensitive like the West, where discussions on race are impossible.
None of this, by the way, is to downplay real and dangerous racism in Korea or anywhere else. But I just don't think cartoons are a huge deal. |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| JFP2020 wrote: |
Honestly, I'm not offended by this. But then I'm not a very politically correct person.
BUT there is no doubt that doing something similar with Asian or black people in Europe or the USA would get you into a lot of trouble.
I'd kind of prefer if people were more relaxed about these things, however, rather than Korea becoming hyper-sensitive like the West, where discussions on race are impossible.
None of this, by the way, is to downplay real and dangerous racism in Korea or anywhere else. But I just don't think cartoons are a huge deal. |
Exactly. The racist thing for me about that cartoon was how they automatically assume all whiteys have blond hair and long noses, hey man, what about us dark-haired pugs? Discrimination to the hilt I say! |
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