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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:20 am Post subject: |
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The US papers saw the protests in Tunisia as quaint. They'll flip out about Egypt. A different government in Egypt would be hell for Plucky Little Israel:
http://www.businessinsider.com/muslim-brotherhood-egypt-revolution-2011-1
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/opinion/23kaplan.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
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| Another thing to keep in mind: in terms of American interests and regional peace, there is plenty of peril in democracy. It was not democrats, but Arab autocrats, Anwar Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan, who made peace with Israel. An autocrat firmly in charge can make concessions more easily than can a weak, elected leader � just witness the fragility of Mahmoud Abbas�s West Bank government. And it was democracy that brought the extremists of Hamas to power in Gaza. In fact, do we really want a relatively enlightened leader like King Abdullah in Jordan undermined by widespread street demonstrations? We should be careful what we wish for in the Middle East. |
The New York Times. That island of liberal thoughts about human rights, freedoms and the rest (unless Israel is at risk, then mother fu&k those A-rabs). |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
The US papers saw the protests in Tunisia as quaint. They'll flip out about Egypt. A different government in Egypt would be hell for Plucky Little Israel:
http://www.businessinsider.com/muslim-brotherhood-egypt-revolution-2011-1
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/opinion/23kaplan.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
| Quote: |
| Another thing to keep in mind: in terms of American interests and regional peace, there is plenty of peril in democracy. It was not democrats, but Arab autocrats, Anwar Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan, who made peace with Israel. An autocrat firmly in charge can make concessions more easily than can a weak, elected leader � just witness the fragility of Mahmoud Abbas�s West Bank government. And it was democracy that brought the extremists of Hamas to power in Gaza. In fact, do we really want a relatively enlightened leader like King Abdullah in Jordan undermined by widespread street demonstrations? We should be careful what we wish for in the Middle East. |
The New York Times. That island of liberal thoughts about human rights, freedoms and the rest (unless Israel is at risk, then mother fu&k those A-rabs). |
With Egypt, there's a real risk of Islamists coming to power. The NYTimes is right about there being peril in democracy. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Peril for whom? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Peril for whom? |
For the Egyptians ruled by Islamists! |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Right. They'd elect them, because it is a muslim society. It is what they would want. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Right. They'd elect them, because it is a muslim society. It is what they would want. |
True enough. Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Exactly. In my country freedom of speech has been thrown in trash by Totalitarian Humanists to the apparent applause of the intellectual class and professional dissidents (Canadian Imams). Average Canadians are (rightly, maybe) more worried about Sydney Crosby's head injury. If the Brotherhood comes to power then Egyptian women might start showing less hair. Every society sucks in unique ways. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
The US papers saw the protests in Tunisia as quaint. They'll flip out about Egypt. A different government in Egypt would be hell for Plucky Little Israel:
http://www.businessinsider.com/muslim-brotherhood-egypt-revolution-2011-1
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/opinion/23kaplan.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
| Quote: |
| Another thing to keep in mind: in terms of American interests and regional peace, there is plenty of peril in democracy. It was not democrats, but Arab autocrats, Anwar Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan, who made peace with Israel. An autocrat firmly in charge can make concessions more easily than can a weak, elected leader � just witness the fragility of Mahmoud Abbas�s West Bank government. And it was democracy that brought the extremists of Hamas to power in Gaza. In fact, do we really want a relatively enlightened leader like King Abdullah in Jordan undermined by widespread street demonstrations? We should be careful what we wish for in the Middle East. |
The New York Times. That island of liberal thoughts about human rights, freedoms and the rest (unless Israel is at risk, then mother fu&k those A-rabs). |
With Egypt, there's a real risk of Islamists coming to power. The NYTimes is right about there being peril in democracy. |
Peril? For Israel, yes. For other countries? I'm skeptical. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| If the Brotherhood comes to power then Egyptian women might start showing less hair. |
I don't consider that a sufficient example of Islamism. A Muslim democracy would be welcome, an Islamist party coming to power under a democracy would be unwelcome.
Islam v. Islamism
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Islamism is an ideology that demands man's complete adherence to the sacred law of Islam and rejects as much as possible outside influence, with some exceptions (such as access to military and medical technology). It is imbued with a deep antagonism towards non-Muslims and has a particular hostility towards the West. It amounts to an effort to turn Islam, a religion and civilization, into an ideology.
The word "Islamism" is highly appropriate, for this is an "-ism" like other "-isms&quo | | | |
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