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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Ice Tea
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:08 am Post subject: Almost there? |
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Common Korean Salary 2,000,000 / month = $1,791.79
Common Chinese Salary 10,000 / month = $1,519.51 + less hours
What's going to happen the day these two numbers equal each other? |
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hondaicivic
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: Daegu, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Almost there? |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
Common Korean Salary 2,000,000 / month = $1,791.79
Common Chinese Salary 10,000 / month = $1,519.51 + less hours
What's going to happen the day these two numbers equal each other? |
China takes over the world....  |
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Skipperoo
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Is that taking accomodation and airfare into account? Those are a big draw for most. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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There aren't many 40 hour work week jobs that pay less than 2.2 here.
Korea has low tax ~ 2%
severance +2k
pension +1K
housing +5K
airfare +1K
I hate to admit it, but Korea is pobably still the best bet for savers. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Skipperoo wrote: |
| Is that taking accomodation and airfare into account? Those are a big draw for most. |
The better jobs in China also offer (better than Korea) accommodation and airfare as well as "end of contract bonus".
IN many ways, if someone takes the time to shop around, they can get a better deal in China than they can in Korea with a larger savings potential because of similar wages and benefits and much lower cost of living (unless you head for Shanghai or Beijing).
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Ice Tea
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
Korea has low tax ~ 2% |
And so does China
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
severance +2k |
Not as large but they do have signing bonuses
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
pension +1K |
You'd be lucky if you actually paid your pension in Korea
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
housing +5K |
China offers that too.
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
airfare +1K |
And they offer airfare. |
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decolyon
Joined: 24 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Almost there? |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
Common Korean Salary 2,000,000 / month = $1,791.79
Common Chinese Salary 10,000 / month = $1,519.51 + less hours
What's going to happen the day these two numbers equal each other? |
I long for this day. Not that I plan on going to China, but that Korean school owners and principals will get off their high horse.
I remember 4 or 5 years ago, man, it was a teachers market. If you were young, white, attractive, and North American you could pretty much dictate your contract terms. I knew people that wrote in extra vacation time, higher salaries, less teaching time and the schools just went along with it because if they didn't, that teacher could go out and get 10 more contracts thrown in his face. It was even better if you possessed all those qualities and were also female. Man, they really had it good.
But since the economies back home crashed, fresh uni grads have been flooding over. It's unreal how many noobs are here these days. With such a flooded teacher base, schools have been allowed to pick and choose and turn away lesser teachers by the truck loads. They've already lowered salaries and have started to cut half the airfare. I know some places now will just fly you home after contract, many expect you to fly yourself across the Pacific with no reimbursement. Mark my words, if this keeps up, they'll soon start expecting teachers to pay their own rent. It'll happen.
But here's the catch. There are thousands of jobs in China. Learning Chinese and Chinese culture is much more important to younger grads these days, that's why you've seen an increase in the number of people going there. Plus, they have fewer hours and average old BAs can teach universities there. As soon as it is easier to earn more money and live a better life in China than Korea, the foreign population here will drop. It will be back to the good old days again when teachers had their say on working conditions and pay.
Some may say "But deco, look at Japan. They have worse terms for their foreign teachers yet still have a flooded market of whites dudes willing to teach there." Yes that's true. But there are far more important reasons to go to Japan than just to teach. It's still a significant world economy. Far more than Korea is now. On the surface it's generally open to Americans. Transitioning from teaching work to non-teaching work is rather easy after your first year there. You can self sponsor your visa and work pretty much wherever you like. I find it to be a much deeper and more interesting culture than Korean culture is. Plus, there is less of a stigma for the local girls to date foreign men. Actually, many Japanese girls really like white guys, especially Americans. I think on the whole Korean girls are more attractive, but I'm willing to sacrifice the beauty a bit to have a more open and comfortable relationship.
I give it two years before the population here starts to level off and drop to pre recession levels. Then, these greedy hagwon owners are going to have to start swallowing their pride again and give the foreign teacher what he wants. They keep saying Korean English teachers will replace foreigners. And in the rural areas, that may be true. But for Koreans, sending your kid to a school with some foreign people rather than just Koreans is a bit of a status symbol. And we all know how obsessed with status Koreans are. That dynamic will only be exagerated once there are fewer foreigners. Moms will be out bidding each other to send their kids to a hagwon with white people than all Koreans. The visa rules will quietly be relaxed. You may still need an FBI check, but if it's not appostilled or older than 6 months old, the immigration office will just approve it anyways. The in person interview first timers have to give at the consulate will probably go as well.
All these new regulations were a reaction to the situation as it was. Rightfully so. They have more teachers than they knew what to do with and they wanted to make sure they got the best of this bunch. Weeding out the fake degrees, old, dark skinned, and less desirables. It's to be expected. But once the employee market starts to dry up, they'll have to loosen the restrictions and let more people in again. We may even see a time when our Filipino friends are allowed E2 status. |
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kingplaya4
Joined: 14 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^Keep dreaming. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 2 million won a month isn't really a common salary. Even if you want to go on the low end and say 2.2 million won, you end up with $1,970, about $200 off of your numbers. On top of that you're saying 10,000 RMB per month, which is a bit on the high side from what I've seen. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Almost there? |
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| decolyon wrote: |
| Ice Tea wrote: |
Common Korean Salary 2,000,000 / month = $1,791.79
Common Chinese Salary 10,000 / month = $1,519.51 + less hours
What's going to happen the day these two numbers equal each other? |
I long for this day. Not that I plan on going to China, but that Korean school owners and principals will get off their high horse.
I remember 4 or 5 years ago, man, it was a teachers market. If you were young, white, attractive, and North American you could pretty much dictate your contract terms. I knew people that wrote in extra vacation time, higher salaries, less teaching time and the schools just went along with it because if they didn't, that teacher could go out and get 10 more contracts thrown in his face. It was even better if you possessed all those qualities and were also female. Man, they really had it good.
But since the economies back home crashed, fresh uni grads have been flooding over. It's unreal how many noobs are here these days. With such a flooded teacher base, schools have been allowed to pick and choose and turn away lesser teachers by the truck loads. They've already lowered salaries and have started to cut half the airfare. I know some places now will just fly you home after contract, many expect you to fly yourself across the Pacific with no reimbursement. Mark my words, if this keeps up, they'll soon start expecting teachers to pay their own rent. It'll happen.
But here's the catch. There are thousands of jobs in China. Learning Chinese and Chinese culture is much more important to younger grads these days, that's why you've seen an increase in the number of people going there. Plus, they have fewer hours and average old BAs can teach universities there. As soon as it is easier to earn more money and live a better life in China than Korea, the foreign population here will drop. It will be back to the good old days again when teachers had their say on working conditions and pay.
Some may say "But deco, look at Japan. They have worse terms for their foreign teachers yet still have a flooded market of whites dudes willing to teach there." Yes that's true. But there are far more important reasons to go to Japan than just to teach. It's still a significant world economy. Far more than Korea is now. On the surface it's generally open to Americans. Transitioning from teaching work to non-teaching work is rather easy after your first year there. You can self sponsor your visa and work pretty much wherever you like. I find it to be a much deeper and more interesting culture than Korean culture is. Plus, there is less of a stigma for the local girls to date foreign men. Actually, many Japanese girls really like white guys, especially Americans. I think on the whole Korean girls are more attractive, but I'm willing to sacrifice the beauty a bit to have a more open and comfortable relationship.
I give it two years before the population here starts to level off and drop to pre recession levels. Then, these greedy hagwon owners are going to have to start swallowing their pride again and give the foreign teacher what he wants. They keep saying Korean English teachers will replace foreigners. And in the rural areas, that may be true. But for Koreans, sending your kid to a school with some foreign people rather than just Koreans is a bit of a status symbol. And we all know how obsessed with status Koreans are. That dynamic will only be exagerated once there are fewer foreigners. Moms will be out bidding each other to send their kids to a hagwon with white people than all Koreans. The visa rules will quietly be relaxed. You may still need an FBI check, but if it's not appostilled or older than 6 months old, the immigration office will just approve it anyways. The in person interview first timers have to give at the consulate will probably go as well.
All these new regulations were a reaction to the situation as it was. Rightfully so. They have more teachers than they knew what to do with and they wanted to make sure they got the best of this bunch. Weeding out the fake degrees, old, dark skinned, and less desirables. It's to be expected. But once the employee market starts to dry up, they'll have to loosen the restrictions and let more people in again. We may even see a time when our Filipino friends are allowed E2 status. |
No...WAY. If anything, maybe for the next 5 years or so, there will be more and more kids coming over. As I said numerous times before, you can blame word of mouth from social networks like Facebook that advertises the "good life" over here--which is far from the truth in my opinion. The good life are for those that use the local women, drink and live recklessly over here with a little half-hearted attempt at teaching mixed in as an obligatory weekly nuisance. |
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rumdiary
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
Korea has low tax ~ 2% |
And so does China
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
severance +2k |
Not as large but they do have signing bonuses
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
pension +1K |
You'd be lucky if you actually paid your pension in Korea
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
housing +5K |
China offers that too.
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
airfare +1K |
And they offer airfare. |
You will also probably work less hours in China. I can;t believe how long many schools expect people to work these days. I keep seeing jobs listed that expect you to work 8 to 10 hours a day in Korea. Less than five years ago 30 hour work weeks were the norm. China also has far more interesting places to visit and you are more likely to have friends or family want to come visit you. And with the low cost of living the opportunity to save is almost equal. |
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rickpidero
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| rumdiary wrote: |
| Ice Tea wrote: |
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
Korea has low tax ~ 2% |
And so does China
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
severance +2k |
Not as large but they do have signing bonuses
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
pension +1K |
You'd be lucky if you actually paid your pension in Korea
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
housing +5K |
China offers that too.
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
airfare +1K |
And they offer airfare. |
You will also probably work less hours in China. I can;t believe how long many schools expect people to work these days. I keep seeing jobs listed that expect you to work 8 to 10 hours a day in Korea. Less than five years ago 30 hour work weeks were the norm. China also has far more interesting places to visit and you are more likely to have friends or family want to come visit you. And with the low cost of living the opportunity to save is almost equal. |
I know, people always say "if you went somewhere interesting I would visit."
I hope the flight situation gets better eventually. Still cost way to much to get out of this country. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Almost there? |
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[quote="decolyon"][quote="Ice Tea"]
Some may say "But deco, look at Japan. They have worse terms for their foreign teachers yet still have a flooded market of whites dudes willing to teach there." Yes that's true. But there are far more important reasons to go to Japan than just to teach. It's still a significant world economy. Far more than Korea is now. On the surface it's generally open to Americans. Transitioning from teaching work to non-teaching work is rather easy after your first year there. You can self sponsor your visa and work pretty much wherever you like. I find it to be a much deeper and more interesting culture than Korean culture is. Plus, there is less of a stigma for the local girls to date foreign men. Actually, many Japanese girls really like white guys, especially Americans. I think on the whole Korean girls are more attractive, but I'm willing to sacrifice the beauty a bit to have a more open and comfortable relationship.
where is my crying emoticon?!? i lived ther for 3 years and its true. I think I may live for the 2/3 times a year I can go back and hang out. Japanese women are very cool, and you dont marry the whole family like here.
waaaaaaaaaaaaa |
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jlee83
Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Almost there? |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
Common Korean Salary 2,000,000 / month = $1,791.79
Common Chinese Salary 10,000 / month = $1,519.51 + less hours
What's going to happen the day these two numbers equal each other? |
Nice, you quote the low-end wages for Korea and the high-end for China.
If you actually have the qualifications to land yourself a 10,000RMB/month job in China (and assuming you're not a complete idiot), you can do a lot better than 2,000,000WON/month in Korea.
For the average, run-of-the-mill teacher, Korea is the better option. However, if you have real EFL/ESL qualifications and teaching credentials, then China might be the better option. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:21 am Post subject: |
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This whole thread is very short sighted. You should be asking which country offers the most potential 3~5~7 years out. I think the prime time to get into China is close to passing. The prime window for coming to Korea passed 9 years ago. Of course money can still be made, but the golden age has past and unless you already are riding your wave another place is your best bet�
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