|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| If it were a high enough window where I'd die before I hit the ground |
I thought it was a myth that people who jump from high places die before hitting the ground. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If it were a high enough window where I'd die before I hit the ground |
I thought it was a myth that people who jump from high places die before hitting the ground. |
I've never heard that before (dying before hitting the ground). People who jump off the golden gate bridge have a very painful death because their ribs break and lungs usually are punctured before they die. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If it were a high enough window where I'd die before I hit the ground |
I thought it was a myth that people who jump from high places die before hitting the ground. |
I am sure you are right. Maybe if you jumped out of a spaceship. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nero wrote: |
Well, as a New Zealander (that's not British, to those geographically challenged further up in the thread) who lived in New Orleans for 4 years (1998 - 2002) I was offering my thoughts. Sometimes it's nice to hear different opinion than your own, don't you think?
However, you are correct in your assertions that it is your country, not mine.
I agree that your government is corrupt, some of your police are inept and so on. However, I don't think an armed populace is the answer. Too many innocent people get killed. It's like cutting down a forest to catch a tiger.
I understand you want to protect yourselves, but don't you think a better bet would be to try to fix a system which leads to the problems which require the carrying of guns in the first place? Or is the US too far gone?
I truly think the founding fathers would be editing the second amendment the minute we dug them up if they could see what the idiot brigade made of it. |
A large minority of Americans probably agree with you. I also agree, fix the system, don't address the symptoms. That means we end the War on Drugs, but don't outlaw guns.
As I said, the gun control laws in AZ are too lax. But this is a State issue. I live in KY, and the gun regulations are also too lax here. McDonald v. Chicago clarified the 2nd Amendment. At a minimum, State governments must allow people to own guns in their own home. That's really all it held. I think that is exactly right.
I am outright opposed to any Federal gun control initiatives.
You have to take into account the culture. In 1997, British handed over most of their weapons to their government. This would NEVER happen in the United States.
I would be more worried if the accidental deaths contained many people who abstained from gun culture. I don't own a gun, and probably never will. I don't hunt, and I live in the city, and I don't buy drugs. So, guns are really a scant danger. I'll probably be mugged once in my life, but again, outlawing guns and eliminating guns are two different things, and being mugged at knifepoint versus being mugged at gunpoint doesn't amount to a huge difference.
But, if you want to get a little less radical, and discuss gun regulations, you might find we'd agree on a lot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Space Bar wrote: |
No, they are not trying to kill you, you WILL die. |
But if their executioner had been forced to use "death by defenestration," as his method of operation they may well have survived (either by surviving the fall, or by simply overpowering him). I don't think that's a triviality given the context of the discussion.
Either way though, I'd still prefer being thrown out the window. It's more dramatic, and I'd rather struggle and lose than just be popped in the head like some dog being put down by an owner that no longer wants him. I have the same issue with lethal injection. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A guy tried to throw me out a window once.
But I whipped out my gun and shot him.
Ha ha, don't bring a window to a gun fight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry, this is a long post; and those of you who post regularly will have heard it all before
| nero wrote: |
| Americans seem to have a strange paranoid fear of the 'other' - if it's not the blacks, it's the jews...or the gays...or the Mexicans... |
In 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009, approximately 50% of homicides in the US, where the race of the murderer was known, were committed by blacks, almost all of whom male
Even though black males constitute a mere 6% of the population of America, a black male is responsible for 1-in-2 murders. This means that there are, on average, 42 murderers per 100,000 black males. The remaining 94% of the US population has, on average, 2.6 murderers per 100,000 people. Consequently, black males commit SIXTEEN TIMES as many murders as the rest of the population. The US is 12% black; the UK is 2% black; Canada is 2.5% black. Could the high homicide rate in the US be a reflection simply of its demographics?
2.6 per 100,000 is still very high by developed world standards. Nevertheless, it's a significant improvement on the gross national rate. But from the FBI stats above, the use of firearms usually accounts for 70-75% of all homicides (so to assess the gun factor's influence on the gross homicide rate, subtract 25% from it). In conclusion, the US doesn't have a high murder rate because it has a lot of guns; it has a high murder rate because it has a lot of blacks. Sorry if that sounds racist, but what other possible interpretation is there?
* But if blacks didn't have such easy access to guns, their homicide rates would be lower
That's entirely possible, but black males are by far the most prone to commit murder, so guns per se are of debatable importance
* blacks commit so many murders because America is racist
Being disliked because you are black is no excuse for committing murder. But clearly racism is irrelevant anyway, since the victims of black male murderers tend to be black males
* The US is such an awful place to be for blacks, they naturally just go crazy
There are peoples who have suffered far more than black Americans, such as Poles and East Germans, who suffered Nazism followed immediately by Stalinism. Doesn't get much worse than that, does it? Did you know that Poland was the only country in Europe not to experience a recession in 2009/10?
* blacks commit so many murders because of Slavery
Black murder rates were much lower in the past
Source: Thomas Sowell, 'Economic Facts & Fallacies'
* blacks commit so many murders because America is a capitalist economy and doesn't invest in social welfare
See: http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/failed-war-on-poverty.jpg
Walter Williams: "The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn�t do, what Jim Crow couldn�t do, what the harshest racism couldn�t do. And that is to destroy the black family�
* If Americans paid higher taxes, like in Europe, the US would have lower rates of murder, like in Europe
No country in Europe is 12% black
* America is so mired by racism, that nobody will employ blacks, meaning they have no choice but to resort to a life of crime
5% of blacks are in the top 10% personal income bracket
7% of black households are in the top 10% household income bracket
The figures are lower than for whites and Asians, admittedly, but there's clearly nothing whatsoever standing in the way of blacks becoming successful if they choose to take the opportunities that American society offers them (2005 figs) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
Sorry, this is a long post; and those of you who post regularly will have heard it all before
| nero wrote: |
| Americans seem to have a strange paranoid fear of the 'other' - if it's not the blacks, it's the jews...or the gays...or the Mexicans... |
In 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009, approximately 50% of homicides in the US, where the race of the murderer was known, were committed by blacks, almost all of whom male
Even though black males constitute a mere 6% of the population of America, a black male is responsible for 1-in-2 murders. This means that there are, on average, 42 murderers per 100,000 black males. The remaining 94% of the US population has, on average, 2.6 murderers per 100,000 people. Consequently, black males commit SIXTEEN TIMES as many murders as the rest of the population. The US is 12% black; the UK is 2% black; Canada is 2.5% black. Could the high homicide rate in the US be a reflection simply of its demographics?
2.6 per 100,000 is still very high by developed world standards. Nevertheless, it's a significant improvement on the gross national rate. But from the FBI stats above, the use of firearms usually accounts for 70-75% of all homicides (so to assess the gun factor's influence on the gross homicide rate, subtract 25% from it). In conclusion, the US doesn't have a high murder rate because it has a lot of guns; it has a high murder rate because it has a lot of blacks. Sorry if that sounds racist, but what other possible interpretation is there?
* But if blacks didn't have such easy access to guns, their homicide rates would be lower
That's entirely possible, but black males are by far the most prone to commit murder, so guns per se are of debatable importance
* blacks commit so many murders because America is racist
Being disliked because you are black is no excuse for committing murder. But clearly racism is irrelevant anyway, since the victims of black male murderers tend to be black males
* The US is such an awful place to be for blacks, they naturally just go crazy
There are peoples who have suffered far more than black Americans, such as Poles and East Germans, who suffered Nazism followed immediately by Stalinism. Doesn't get much worse than that, does it? Did you know that Poland was the only country in Europe not to experience a recession in 2009/10?
* blacks commit so many murders because of Slavery
Black murder rates were much lower in the past
Source: Thomas Sowell, 'Economic Facts & Fallacies'
* blacks commit so many murders because America is a capitalist economy and doesn't invest in social welfare
See: http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/failed-war-on-poverty.jpg
Walter Williams: "The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn�t do, what Jim Crow couldn�t do, what the harshest racism couldn�t do. And that is to destroy the black family�
* If Americans paid higher taxes, like in Europe, the US would have lower rates of murder, like in Europe
No country in Europe is 12% black
* America is so mired by racism, that nobody will employ blacks, meaning they have no choice but to resort to a life of crime
5% of blacks are in the top 10% personal income bracket
7% of black households are in the top 10% household income bracket
The figures are lower than for whites and Asians, admittedly, but there's clearly nothing whatsoever standing in the way of blacks becoming successful if they choose to take the opportunities that American society offers them (2005 figs) |
I wonder what the homicide rate for the US would be if both blacks and Hispanics were excluded. 16% of the US population is Hispanic compared to less than 1% in the UK and 1% in Canada. Among Latinos in the US there is a higher violent crime rate:
"Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate."
http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf
In the FBI homicide statistics, however, Hispanics are classified as white. So we don't really know what the murder rate for non-Hispanic whites is.
I still think that the easy availability of guns in America contributes to the high homicide rate. Guns tend to make already existing problems worse. Someone is more likely to die when a gun is used in the commission of a crime:
" 'People kill with knifes, too. Do you want to ban knifes?' From Dr. Roth's study: The overall fatality rate in gun robberies is an estimated 4 per 1,000--about 3 times the rate for knife robberies, 10 times the rate for robberies with other weapons, and 20 times the rate for robberies by unarmed offenders. (Cook, Philip J., 'Robbery Violence,' Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 78-2, (1987):357-376.) For assaults, a crime which includes threats, the most widely cited estimate of the fatality rate is derived from a 1968 analysis of assaults and homicides committed in Chicago. The study, prepared for the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, reported that gun attacks kill 12.2 percent of their intended victims. This is about 5 times as often as in attacks with knives, the second most deadly weapon used in violent crimes.(Newton, G.D., and F.E. Zimring, Firearms and Violence in American Life: A Staff Report Submitted to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, Washington, D.C.: National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, 1969.) With one exception, more recent studies have generally concluded that death was at least twice as likely in gun assaults as in knife assaults. (The exception is Kleck and McElrath, 'The Effects of Weaponry on Human Violence.')"
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/guns.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nero wrote: |
[. Needless to say, that one million is more than all war deaths in American history.
. |
Nonsense. If you combine just the Civil War and WWII that number exceeds 1 million. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 100 years ago if you told me that gangs of roving criminals were accosting, attacking, or killing people randomly, you would have been asked, "where was your gun?" Criminals mind you, not any race, just criminals. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
